RABEL222
 
  0  
Reply Sun 17 Jul, 2011 12:33 am
@roger,
I guess I dident make myself clear. I am saying that the trillions refered to dont exist as paper, cash, or in any form except as taxes that are collected daily. There are no funds for social security. Everything comes to the general fund from taxes and is paid from the general fund and what we borrow. We owe 14 trillion or so dollars.
RABEL222
 
  0  
Reply Sun 17 Jul, 2011 12:35 am
@roger,
I am not sure that you saw it yourself or if you did you misinterperted it.
roger
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 17 Jul, 2011 12:43 am
@RABEL222,
I'm not sure what you mean there, but SS buys treasury issues. To you, this means SS has no money.

That's about like you or I looking in our billfolds and deciding we're almost broke because we only see a twenty dollar bill. That's what you are saying, isn't it? They don't keep a box of cash. They don't use savings accounts. They don't invest in the stock market. They hold treasury bonds and notes.

Well, who knows. Maybe in a couple of weeks, we really will find out they are just worthless I.O.U.s.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jul, 2011 02:33 am
@RABEL222,
Although it is true that Social Security funds are often treated as though they were general revenue by a cynical and opportunistic Congress, there is a social security trust fund, which, as Roger alluded to, relies on Federal securities. So long as Congress is not raiding the SS trust fund (which they all too often do), the funds to pay SS should be available, default or no default. Of far more significance are other Federal obligations--such as the Federal prison system, the largest single pay-out from general revenues.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jul, 2011 03:21 am
@Setanta,
The prison system? I wouldn't have guessed that in a hunnert years.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jul, 2011 04:52 am
@roger,
Neither would i have done--but i've now read that in several sources. I'll go see what i can find.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jul, 2011 04:57 am
What i'm finding is that the Justice Department runs a close second to the Defense Department in general outlay--but that when this is broken down into categories, the prison system accounts for more than either defense procurement (per annum) or military salaries by themselves. The problem i'm running into is that no two sources agree entirely, and many of them are suspect because of likely partisan prejudice of either left or right.
Irishk
 
  2  
Reply Sun 17 Jul, 2011 08:54 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
The problem i'm running into is that no two sources agree entirely...
I ran into a similar frustration a couple of months ago when I was trying to read the president's budget proposal (think it was the one for 2012) and got to the section on DoD. Something there prompted me to look up overseas military bases (funding) and I couldn't find -- even on the government sites -- agreement on how many there are, how many are closing, how many will see increases in troop strength, etc. It's enough to make you want to tear your hair out!
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jul, 2011 09:05 am
@Setanta,
Where are you finding that?

From 2010 actual numbers from the 2012 Historical Tables in the budget, table 5.1:
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy12/pdf/BUDGET-2012-BUD-25.pdf
7.6 Billion for federal correctional facilities.
135 billion for National Defense Procurements
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jul, 2011 10:00 am
@parados,
I told you that no two sources i found agreed. However, is not your defense procurement for purchases over a period of years, rather than a single fiscal year?
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jul, 2011 10:21 am
OK, now i recall the context in which i read this, and once again, i don't find any two sources which agree--the numbers are pretty easy to juggle. Social Security and Medicare/Medicade respresent more than 40% of the budget, more than twice the enitre DoD budget. After that category, the largest entitlement/non-discretionary obligation category is the Federal prison system.
0 Replies
 
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jul, 2011 11:54 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Here's the thing. SS checks being issued etc is not something that Obama even had to say. It's not a threat, but a reminder.

Similarly, if I say that cutting off the water means I can't put out the fire and you can't drink, it's not fear mongering. It's also not saying that I'm going to do anything to you, only that this is a product of such an situation.

Presenting this as if Obama is threatening people is stupid. The threat of not getting checks exists whether Obama said so or not. Him saying so only ruffles Republican feathers because it puts the fire to their feet from their own constituents to stop being stubborn. They don't like the pressure, so it's spin time.

Of course, since the GOP is keen to kill SS, why should they care if the checks don't go out? Shouldn't they be cheering the idea of these checks never making it to the moochers and leaches? That is how they've made recipients of these entitlements out to be, so why sweat it?

A
R
The elephants are blushing
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  2  
Reply Sun 17 Jul, 2011 02:10 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

. . . and many of them are suspect because of likely partisan prejudice of either left or right.


This is why I quite following the global warming thread, and several. Might as well use Revelations to calculate the end of the world.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jul, 2011 02:59 pm
@roger,
I always meant to read that one..
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jul, 2011 03:09 pm
@ossobuco,
For myself, its reputation preceded it.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  0  
Reply Sun 17 Jul, 2011 03:22 pm
@Setanta,
No, that is for the year 2010 as reported by the US govt in their historical documents.
0 Replies
 
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jul, 2011 04:08 pm
@ossobuco,
I read it once. But only every third post.

And only every 4th word of every third post.

Smile
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jul, 2011 04:11 pm
@Irishk,
I thought it was supposed to be the 7th of the 7th.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jul, 2011 04:13 pm
@Irishk,
I just know there's info in that thread that I could find useful, but the thing is daunting.
0 Replies
 
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Jul, 2011 04:24 pm
@roger,
That sounds like some sort of supernatural thing. I'll try it lol.
0 Replies
 
 

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