W. VIRGINIA........SHOULD LAND BE GIVE BACK TO VIRGINIA

Well, the Supreme Court settled the question in Virginia v West Virginia in 1871. West Virginia won the case. Its never come up since. Now you wanna cause trouble?

radio god ron bennington, has long advocated redrawing the states maps, halving the number at least, the obvious choice is to get rid of the divided name states first and go from there

and good by hawaii and alaska, ron believes you have to touch a state to be a state

WHY IS THIS GUY YELLING AT US?

The panhandle Counties werent added to W Va until 1866 , after the war was over. I never found out why these two panhandle counties were tacked on at that date. TheWheeling conventions never mentioned these two countoes and it seems like an afterthought.

Harper's Ferry, Boss--it added Harper's Ferry to West Virginia, and that's near where the railroad connecting Washington to the Midwest crosses the Potomac. From Point of Rocks in Maryland to Harper's Ferry, there is only a very narrow strip of land upon which rail lines can be laid, and the Baltimore and Ohio was using that strip of land. It can legitimately said that interrupting the B & O prolonged the war, and Jackson interrupted the B & O every chance he got.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_v._West_Virginia

Many in Congress questioned both the legality of the Reorganized Virginia government and the constitutionality of the creation of West Virginia.[23][24] Many scholars since have questioned the democratic nature of the Second Wheeling Convention, the legal and moral legitimacy of the Reorganized Government, and the constitutionality of the creation of West Virginia.[52] But most lengthy scholarly treatments of the issue assert the legality of the Reorganized government. In Luther v. Borden, 48 U.S. 1 (1849), the Supreme Court held that only the federal government could determine what constituted a "republican form of government" in a state (as provided for in the Guarantee Clause of Article Four of the United States Constitution).[53] Virginia was not alone in having two governments—one unionist, one rebel—with the union government recognized by the United States.[54] The Supreme Court had held in Luther v. Borden, "Under this article of the Constitution it rests with Congress to decide what government is the established one in a State."[55] As both the President and Congress had recognized the Reorganized Government, this provision was met and the entire process was legal.[14][56] There were precedents for such action as well. As one legal scholar has noted, Michigan was admitted to the union after irregular elections for three unauthorized constitutional conventions led to a request for statehood that Congress (eventually) granted in 1837.[57] Kansas, too, went through a highly irregular statehood process marked by violence, mass meetings masquerading as legislative assemblies, and allegations of vote fraud, but it was also admitted to the union.[57] One widely cited legal analysis concludes that "the process of West Virginia statehood was hyper-legal".[58] Indeed, to deny the legality of the Reorganized Government creates significant problems, two legal scholars have argued: "[It] follows, we submit, that 'Virginia' validly consented to the creation of West Virginia with its borders. Indeed, one can deny this conclusion only if one denies one of Lincoln's twin premises: the unlawfulness of secession; or the power of the national government, under the Guarantee Clause, to recognize alternative State governments created by loyal citizens in resistance to insurrectionary regimes that have taken over the usual governing machinery of their States."[59]

Although the U.S. Supreme Court never ruled on the constitutionality of the state's creation, decisions such as those in Virginia v. West Virginia led to a de facto recognition of the state which is now considered unassailable.[28][60] West Virginia's first constitution explicitly agreed to pay a portion of Virginia's debt in helping build roads, canals, railroads, and other public improvements in the new state. But these debts were never paid, and Virginia sued to recover them. In the case, Virginia v. West Virginia, 220 U.S. 1 (1911), the state of Virginia admitted in its briefings the legality of the secession of West Virginia.[61][62] A second constitutional question arises as to whether the Constitution permits states to be carved out of existing states, whether consent is given or not. Article IV, Section 3, Clause 1 of the U.S. Constitution says:

New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.[63]
Should the phrase between the first and second semicolons be read as absolutely barring the creation of a state within the jurisdiction of an existing state, or should it be read in conjunction with the following clause (which permits such creation with the consent of the existing state)? If the former interpretation is adopted, then not only West Virginia but the states of Kentucky, Maine, and possibly Vermont were also created unconstitutionally.[64]Virginia v. West Virginia was also one of the first cases to establish the principle that Congress may give implied consent, and that such consent may be inferred from the context in which action was taken. It was not the first time the Court had so ruled (it had done so in Poole v. Fleeger, 36 U.S. 185, (1837) and Green v. Biddle, 21 U.S. 1 (1823)).[65] But the statement in Virginia v. West Virginia is the one most cited by the court in its subsequent rulings in Virginia v. Tennessee, 148 U.S. 503 (1893); Wharton v. Wise, 153 U.S. 155 (1894); Arizona v. California, 292 U.S. 341 (1934); James v. Dravo Contracting Co., 302 U.S. 134 (1937); and De Veau v. Braisted, 363 U.S. 144 (1960).[66]

References

They was under the military control of the South during the first convention Farmerman so no vote could be taken until the war was over in those counties.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_v._West_Virginia

After reconvening on August 6, the Second Wheeling Convention again debated secession from Virginia. The delegates adopted a resolution authorizing the secession of 39 counties, with the counties of Berkeley, Greenbrier, Hampshire, Hardy, Jefferson, Morgan, and Pocahontas to be added if their voters approved, and authorizing any contiguous counties with these to join the new state if they so voted as well.[14][16] On October 24, 1861, voters in the 39 counties plus voters in Hampshire and Hardy counties voted to secede from the state of Virginia.[17] The ballot also allowed voters to choose delegates to a constitutional convention, which met from November 26, 1861, to February 18, 1862.[18] The convention chose the name "West Virginia," but then engaged in lengthy and acrimonious debate over whether to extend the state's boundaries to other counties which had not voted to secede.[19] Added to the new state were McDowell, Mercer, and Monroe counties.[20] Berkeley, Frederick, Hampshire, Hardy, Jefferson, Morgan, and Pendleton counties were again offered the chance to join, which all but Frederick County did.[20] A new constitution for West Virginia was adopted on February 18, 1862, which was approved by voters on April 4.[21]

Governor Pierpont recalled the Reorganized state legislature, which voted on May 13 to approve the secession (and to include Berkeley, Frederick, and Jefferson counties if they approved the new West Virginia constitution as well).[21][22] After much debate over whether Virginia had truly given its consent to the formation of the new state,[23][24] the United States Congress adopted a statehood bill on July 14, 1862, which contained the proviso that all blacks in the new state under the age of 21 on July 4, 1863, be freed.[25] President Lincoln was unsure of the bill's constitutionality, but pressed by Northern senators he signed the legislation on December 31, 1862.[26] Luckily, the West Virginia constitutional convention had not adjourned sine die, and was called back into session on February 12, 1863.[27] The convention amended the state's constitution on February 17 to include the congressionally required slave freedom provision, and adjourned sine die on February 20.[28] The state's voters ratified the slave freedom amendment on March 26, 1863.[28] On April 20, President Lincoln announced that West Virginia would become a state in 60 days.[28]


Map of the political development of West Virginia. Counties in white are the original counties. Berkely County (red) and Jefferson County (dark blue) were the focus of Virginia v. West Virginia.But Berkeley, Frederick, and Jefferson counties never held votes on secession or the new West Virginia state constitution, as they were under the military control of the Confederacy at the time.[29] On January 31, 1863, the Reorganized legislature of Virginia passed legislation authorizing the Reorganized governor to hold elections in Berkeley County on whether to join West Virginia or not.[30] The Reorganized legislature similarly approved on February 4, 1863, an election for Jefferson County (among others).[31] These elections were held, voters approved secession, and Berkeley and Jefferson Counties were admitted to West Virginia.[32]However, on December 5, 1865, the Virginia Assembly in Richmond passed legislation repealing all the acts of the Reorganized government regarding secession of the 39 counties and the admission of Berkeley and Jefferson counties to the state of West Virginia.[33]

On March 10, 1866, Congress passed a resolution acknowledging the transfer of the two counties to West Virginia from Virginia.[34]

Virginia sued, arguing that no action had taken place under the act of May 13, 1862, requiring elections, and that the elections which occurred in 1863 were fraudulent and irregular. West Virginia filed a demurrer which alleged that the Supreme Court lacked jurisidction over the case because it was of a purely political nature.

DecisionMajority holdingAssociate Justice Samuel Freeman Miller wrote the decision for the majority, joined by Chief Justice Salmon P. Chase and Associate Justices Samuel Nelson, Noah Haynes Swayne, William Strong, and Joseph P. Bradley.

Justice Miller first disposed of the demurrer. He concluded that the demurrer could not be granted "without reversing the settled course of decision in this court and overturning the principles on which several well-considered cases have been decided."[35] He noted that the court had asserted its jurisdiction in several cases before, including The State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations v. The Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 37 U.S. 657 (1838); State of Missouri v. State of Iowa, 48 U.S. 660 (1849); Florida v. Georgia, 58 U.S. 478 (1854); and State of Alabama v. State of Georgia, 64 U.S. 505 (1860).[36]

Justice Miller then posed three questions for the Court to answer: :"1. Did the State of Virginia ever give a consent to this proposition which became obligatory on her? 2. Did the Congress give such consent as rendered the agreement valid? 3. If both these are answered affirmatively, it may be necessary to inquire whether the circumstances alleged in this bill, authorized Virginia to withdraw her consent, and justify us in setting aside the contract, and restoring the two counties to that State."[37] Justice Miller then reviewed the various acts taken to reorganize the government of Virginia in 1861, and the various acts which the Reorganized Government and the United States took to create the state of West Virginia and extend its jurisdiction over the counties in question.[38] In answering the first question, Miller wrote, "Now, we have here, on two different occasions, the emphatic legislative proposition of Virginia that these counties might become part of West Virginia; and we have the constitution of West Virginia agreeing to accept them and providing for their place in the new-born State."[39] There was no question, in the mind of the majority, that Virginia had given its consent. Although the elections had been postponed due to a "hostile" environment, the majority concluded that the Reorganized Government of Virginia had acted in "good faith" to carry out its electoral duties in the two counties.[40]

In regard to the second question, Miller pondered the nature of Congressional consent. Congress could not be expected to explicitly give its consent to every single aspect of the proposed state constitution, Miller argued.[41] And clearly Congress had intensively considered the proposed state constitution (which contained provisions for accession of the two counties in question), because Congress seriously considered the slavery question regarding the admission of the new state and required changes in the proposed constitution before statehood could be granted.[42] This debate could only lead the Court to a single conclusion, Miller stated: "It is, therefore, an inference clear and satisfactory that Congress by that statute, intended to consent to the admission of the State with the contingent boundaries provided for in its constitution and in the statute of Virginia, which prayed for its admission on those terms, and that in so doing it necessarily consented to the agreement of those States on that subject. There was then a valid agreement between the two States consented to by Congress, which agreement made the accession of these counties dependent on the result of a popular vote in favor of that proposition."[43]

Miller now considered the third question. The majority held that although the language of the two statutes of January 31, 1863, and February 4, 1863, were different, they had the same legal intent and force.[44] Virginia showed "good faith" in holding the elections, Miller asserted.[44] That the Reorganized Virginia legislature did not require vote totals to be reported to it and delegated the transmission of the vote totals to West Virginia was not at issue, Miller said. It gave the Reorganized Governor discretion as to when and where to hold the votes, under what condition the votes should be held, and to certify the votes. The legislature acted within its power to delegate these duties to the Reorganized Governor, "and his decision [was] conclusive as to the result."[45] Were these votes fair and regular? The Virginia Assembly, Miller noted, made only "indefinite and vague" allegations about vote fraud, and unspecified charges that somehow Governor Pierpont must have been "misled and deceived" by others into believing the voting was fair and regular.[45] Miller pointedly observed that not a single person was charged with fraud, no specific act of fraud was stated, and no legal wrongs asserted.[45] The Virginia Assembly also did not claim that the state of West Virginia interfered in the elections.[45] Absent such allegations, Virginia's accusations cannot be sustained, Miller concluded. But even if this aspect of Virginia's argument was ignored, Miller wrote, the Reorganized legislature had delegated all its power to certify to the election to Governor Pierpont, and he had certified it. That alone laid to rest Virginia's allegations.[46] "[She] must be bound by what she had done. She can have no right, years after all this has been settled, to come into a court of chancery to charge that her own conduct has been a wrong and a fraud; that her own subordinate agents have misled her governor, and that her solemn act transferring these counties shall be set aside, against the will of the State of West Virginia, and without consulting the wishes of the people of those counties."[47]

Dissent

youd think. However, I know the border scrapes between Loudon County Va and Jefferson/Berkely counties W Va are still going on. Theres about a 20 mile strip among them and a very big strip from Jeff county that is still contested for some reason that goes back to the conventions. Much of the shipping along the blue ridge was still canal boat until late in the 19th century

I was in a mining claim case that was in W Va but was tried in Winchester Va because of the boundary disputes between the states. (It was a limestone prospect).
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Thanks Bill, thats a little more than I wanted to digest. Ill read it this weekend

The Chesapeake and Ohio Canal wrangled over that same strip of land that the B & O used. Bill's source is trying to claim that those two counties could not vote to secede from Virginia because of Confederate occupation, but that's bullshit. The secession vote which formed West Virginia was held in June, 1861, and was preceeded by a convention at which the panhandle counties were more heavily respresented than the other counties of northwest Virginia. At the state secession convention, the representatives of the northewestern counties split roughly 40%-60%. There was coercion on both sides. However, in June, 1861 those counties were occupied by Federal forces. While it is true that Patterson (a veteran of the War of 1812 and the Mexican War) was dilatory and ineffective in dealing with Johnston and Jackson, it is equally true that delegates from those counties were already in Wheeling, and that most counties did not poll the electorate before voting to secede from Virginia.

EDIT: While it is true that Harper's Ferry changed hands eight or nine times during the war, at the time of the second Wheeling convention in Áugust, 1861, it was in Federal hands, although Jackson would soon return. Military realities prevented those two counties from joining the new state of West Virginia, and military realities shaped the decision to add them in 1866. The Federal government had good reason to attempt to protect the line of the B & O, or at least so they thought. Once again, as much as 40% of the population of the counties which comprised West Virginia may well have opposed secession from Virginia. By 1866, of course, the wishes of that segment of the population no longer mattered.

Bill source is wikipeda and that is not always one hundred percents correct even if it tend to be very good indeed.

I had not look at the footnotes to see if and how the statement in question is back up.

Perhaps you might wish to edit that article yourself.