7
   

Are Outdoorsmen CRAZY ????

 
 
raprap
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2011 09:32 am
@OmSigDAVID,
I would also have to add empathy, mostly because humans are social animals. Consequently we aren't hard wired to be honey badgers.

Rap
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2011 09:40 am
@raprap,
raprap wrote:
I would also have to add empathy, mostly because humans are social animals.
U can represent empathy, if u wanna.
I'll represent the other concepts.



raprap wrote:
Consequently we aren't hard wired to be honey badgers.

Rap
I 've never cared for the taste of honey.
I don 't understand the reference.





David
raprap
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2011 09:58 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Honey Badgers are solitary predators that are known to practice overkill.

Human beings are more like wolves, which are pack predators. Pack mentality encourages empathy at least for other members of the pack.

If you have pets, David, you practice empathy.

Rap
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2011 12:10 pm
@raprap,
raprap wrote:



Human beings are more like wolves...


You are speaking of the dumbmasses, but they are more like lemmings or sheep.
raprap
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2011 12:56 pm
@H2O MAN,
??Geeze waterdude--even your quasi-quips make no sense.

Effectively you just ran up a rope and yelled fish?

Rap
0 Replies
 
wmwcjr
 
  2  
Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2011 01:20 pm
@raprap,
Quote:
Human beings are more like wolves, which are pack predators. Pack mentality encourages empathy at least for other members of the pack.


... but (unfortunately) not for those who aren't members of the pack. History is replete with negative examples (Jim Crow, Leninism/Stalinism, the Holocaust, WWII internment of Japanese Americans). Some kids in particular learn this sad fact as well (cliques, bullying).
0 Replies
 
wmwcjr
 
  2  
Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2011 01:33 pm
@H2O MAN,
http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/41783_25188844113_1643_n.jpg

http://ahmadsaeid.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/20070805-humanLemmings-300x216.jpg

0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2011 03:48 pm
@parados,
bears are not stupid. They are stealthy opportunistic and mean fuckers. There are more attacks by black bears than grizzlies, and these are usualy decidedly in favor of the bears. Two girls were hiking the Appalachian Trail in Va in the late 90's, one girl was armed with a 45 and one BLACK bear stalked and killed them both. The armed girl never got off a shot (she was supposed to have been a crack shot but probably never faced down a bear before). YOU ARE IN THE BEAR's COURT. The bear has got all the survival skills and when they attack, the bears biggest concern (just antheopomorphizing here) is not to get hurt or get a serious wound to affect its hunting skills
Grizzlies are more in open ground and , as such, your best defense is NOT to go hiking in forests where grizzlies are in range. Your best protection is not a gun but sight and keeping the bear in sight and showing youre not a threat or arent a puchover either.
I agree that a grizzly, once determoned to get you, will get you, gun or no gun. The best I think a gun will do is to allow you to "take him with you" cause the bear can crush your entire skull with one chomp.
Te guys whove survived bear attacks and were armed, were giys whod had previous expwerience with hunting or driving bears. They werent rookies , and they often were still badly mauled.


H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2011 04:05 pm
@farmerman,


It is best to avoid bears and other known man killers and if you do see these animals give them as wide a berth as possible.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2011 04:11 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
bears are not stupid.
Relative to WHAT???


farmerman wrote:
They are stealthy opportunistic and mean fuckers. There are more attacks by black bears than grizzlies, and these are usualy decidedly in favor
of the bears. Two girls were hiking the Appalachian Trail in Va in the late 90's, one girl was armed with a 45
A .45 WHAT??




farmerman wrote:
and one BLACK bear stalked and killed them both. The armed girl never got off a shot
(she was supposed to have been a crack shot but probably never faced down a bear before).
Do u know if she was awake at the time??



farmerman wrote:
YOU ARE IN THE BEAR's COURT. The bear has got all the survival skills and when they attack, the bears biggest concern (just antheopomorphizing here)
is not to get hurt or get a serious wound to affect its hunting skills Grizzlies are more in open ground and , as such, your best defense is NOT to go hiking in forests where grizzlies are in range. Your best protection is not a gun but sight and keeping the bear in sight and showing youre not a threat or arent a puchover either.
HOW do u tell the bear about the "pushover" part??


farmerman wrote:
I agree that a grizzly, once determoned to get you, will get you, gun or no gun.
The best I think a gun will do is to allow you to "take him with you" cause the bear can crush your entire skull with one chomp.
Yeah, that 's plausible, in light of the fact that we hunted them to near extinction.





farmerman wrote:
Te guys whove survived bear attacks and were armed, were giys whod had previous expwerience with hunting or driving bears.
They werent rookies, and they often were still badly mauled.
Not long ago, I saw videotape of 2 Forest Rangers
who chased a bad bear. He charged them and one of them
took him out with one shot from his rifle (not more specificly described).

Its not as impossible as u woud have us believe.


In any case, for my part,
I 'm staying away from there.





David
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2011 07:17 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Relative to WHAT???
ANY human unfamiliar with how bears will stalk and attack is at the bears mercy. The bear will do that for days and days and when your guard is down. BAM!! you are lunch.

Quote:
A .45 WHAT??

Handgun, a handgun David!!!. It was holstered when they found the girls remains. Both were partially eaten and were obviously victims of the stalking bear. So did the bear know that one girl was armed and by knowing, attack that girl first? who knows. You can look it up on google re: Bear ATtacks on AT. We had a spirited discussion with JTT last year. He was of the opinion that bears arent a threat. I wonder whether he went AT hiking?

Many people, trained to swhoot paper targets at an indoor range, are noqwhere equipped to even be out in that environment especially if it were known that there was an oldwer bear (most likely the ones who become p[eople killers---qwe are so easy to kill and have nice chewy cenyers)

Hikers who carry fragrant food on a trip through the AT, are asking for trouble. Especially candies . The big joke had always been how bears will tear you up just looking for a Snickers.
Foods should be dehydrated style or canned and should be buried and the remnants washed carefully from plates or utensils. Many hikers carry a bottle of pine oil to use as a scent masker and a bears chasing scent.
I had several bear expoeriences in my life but if Im in deep woods Im always armed and I would kill a bear if it gave the signal that I was being stalked. If a bear is encounytered and its got no evil intent, it will scatter to the winds and will run from you. If you are of greater intereswt say , lunch, it will keep a distance but usually poarallel of follwo you. This happened to me in MAine. Up there, the bears are all pretty much overhunted and arent too big. One bear, about 250-300 lb was doing the pqarallel walk and when Id look in his direction he would stop. SO, I foired a shot into a mass of forest duff to his side and this was enough to let him know that I wasnt to be fucked with.

When I was hiking the AT many years ago in NC , a friend and I had a "BIG" bear encounter in the Mt Mitchell area. This bear was running parallel to us and stopping every so ofetn to size us up. He would disappear into the brush for a short time and then reappear closer. I fired two shots from what I had then, it was Browning Hi Power and was a POS cause it jammed on me. I got it unjkammed and fired a second round in the fround in fromt and to the side of him (We estimated he was about 500 lb-that would have been a disaster for us). He waddled off like he was unintimidated. MAny bears in the Blue rRidge and along the AT are big suckers (PA has the record in soize for a blackie and it was just last year and it was over 900 pounds). SO the "evolution theory" that all the mean bears had all been exterminated by the sttlers is bull. Its all about the encounter, if a bear feels that he can take you, he will. If a bear sow has cubs and you are in a "Safety range" whe will blindly attack jsut for the hell of it.
If you didnt know about bears and had a gun and a false sense of power because youre armed, forget it, you may mortally wound the bear as your last conscious act, but itd be like the battle of Apulum and youd be Pyrrhus.



Quote:
HOW do u tell the bear about the "pushover" part??

Appear a sbig as possible . SOme guys would cary another on their back and theyd wave thweir arms. . Trying to keep a safe distance is relative. A bear can run like a Porsche in first. O-35 in two seconds
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Jul, 2011 01:02 pm
@farmerman,
David wrote:
Relative to WHAT???
farmerman wrote:
ANY human unfamiliar with how bears will stalk and attack is at the bears mercy.
The bear will do that for days and days and when your guard is down. BAM!! you are lunch.




David wrote:
A .45 WHAT??
farmerman wrote:
Handgun, a handgun David!!!.
Revolver or automatic ?



farmerman wrote:
It was holstered when they found the girls remains.
Both were partially eaten and were obviously victims of the stalking bear.
Logically, thay shoud BOTH have been well armed against bear. (Each coud defend the other.)
Better logic suggests that thay stay home instead of hiking.




farmerman wrote:
So did the bear know that one girl was armed and by knowing, attack that girl first? who knows.
I don 't.

It shoud be legal to take heavy ordnance along with u
(I like the .45 Thompson Sub and the B.A.R.) for purely defensive purposes.





farmerman wrote:
You can look it up on google re: Bear ATtacks on AT. We had a spirited discussion with JTT last year.
He was of the opinion that bears arent a threat. I wonder whether he went AT hiking?

Many people, trained to swhoot paper targets at an indoor range, are noqwhere equipped to even be out in that environment especially if it were known that there was an oldwer bear (most likely the ones who become p[eople killers---qwe are so easy to kill and have nice chewy cenyers)
I prefer taking taxi cabs.




farmerman wrote:
Hikers who carry fragrant food on a trip through the AT, are asking for trouble. Especially candies.
The big joke had always been how bears will tear you up just looking for a Snickers.
Foods should be dehydrated style or canned and should be buried
and the remnants washed carefully from plates or utensils.
Many hikers carry a bottle of pine oil to use as a scent masker
and a bears chasing scent.
Those of us who stay in civilization don 't need to do that.





farmerman wrote:
I had several bear expoeriences in my life but if Im in deep woods Im always armed
With WHAT??




farmerman wrote:
and I would kill a bear if it gave the signal that I was being stalked.
If a bear is encounytered and its got no evil intent,
it will scatter to the winds and will run from you.
If you are of greater intereswt say , lunch, it will keep a distance
but usually poarallel of follwo you. This happened to me in MAine.
Up there, the bears are all pretty much overhunted and arent too big.
One bear, about 250-300 lb was doing the pqarallel walk and
when Id look in his direction he would stop. SO, I foired a shot
A shot of WHAT??



farmerman wrote:
into a mass of forest duff to his side and this was enough to let him know that I wasnt to be fucked with.

When I was hiking the AT many years ago in NC , a friend and I had a "BIG" bear encounter in the Mt Mitchell area.
This bear was running parallel to us and stopping every so ofetn to size us up.
He would disappear into the brush for a short time and then reappear closer. I fired two shots from what I had then,
it was Browning Hi Power
CALIBER??



farmerman wrote:
and was a POS cause it jammed on me.
I got it unjkammed and fired a second round in the fround in
fromt and to the side of him (We estimated he was about 500 lb-
that would have been a disaster for us). He waddled off like he
was unintimidated. MAny bears in the Blue rRidge and along the
AT are big suckers (PA has the record in soize for a blackie and it
was just last year and it was over 900 pounds). SO the "evolution theory"
that all the mean bears had all been exterminated by the sttlers is bull.
Its all about the encounter, if a bear feels that he can take you, he will.
If a bear sow has cubs and you are in a "Safety range" whe will
blindly attack jsut for the hell of it.
If you didnt know about bears and had a gun and a false sense of power because youre armed,
forget it, you may mortally wound the bear as your last conscious act, but itd be like the battle of Apulum and youd be Pyrrhus.



David wrote:
HOW do u tell the bear about the "pushover" part??
farmerman wrote:
Appear a sbig as possible. SOme guys would cary another on their back and theyd wave thweir arms.
Trying to keep a safe distance is relative. A bear can run like a Porsche in first. O-35 in two seconds
raprap
 
  2  
Reply Tue 19 Jul, 2011 01:44 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
david wrote:
(I like the .45 Thompson Sub and the B.A.R.) for purely defensive purposes.


Extra weight is to be avoided when backpacking. You're already carrying 40 to 60 pounds. A BAR and ammunition adds a minimum of 20 to 25 extra pounds of largely unnecessary weight. If you're really concerned there's a 45-70 two shot derringer that is made for back country fraidy cats. It has been known to break the wrist of the shooter, but it will stop a Crown Victoria, which is generally far more hazardous to life, liberty, and freedom of humans than any bear.

A 45 Thompson sub is one of the most useless back country weapons available. It is good only to intimidate people who've watched too much TV.

BTW simple analytical Risk Analysis shows that most humans are at a far greater risk riding in the back of a taxi cab than back country hiking practicing intelligent precautions. Perceived risk; however, usually is driven by emotion which usually has little to do with reality.

Rap

H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Tue 19 Jul, 2011 02:22 pm
@raprap,
raprap wrote:
...

If you're really concerned there's a 45-70 ...



There are some hand guns in .45-70, but I prefer a compact .45-70 lever action rifle loaded with Garrett 540gr Hammerhead +P rounds.



http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac160/The_H2O_MAN/T56SHTF/guigegun001.jpg
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Jul, 2011 03:35 pm
@raprap,
Quote:
Perceived risk; however, usually is driven by emotion which usually has little to do with reality.

Riding in a TAxi in NY will produce a risk profile of hiking the AT probably for every day for fifty years.

Crrying heavy weapons while hiking may be the requirement in Iraq but if youre hiking the AT, you are there for other things than being a bear target.

There have been maybe 2 attacks or threats a year on the AT and there have been several threats from MOOSEduring rutting season. Carrying large weapons will probably get you pitched off the trail . I carry a concealed weapon when working on mine sites and in all back country and its heavy enough with three clips
0 Replies
 
 

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