Scandinavia Vikings make have taken revenge on the R1a and R1b Aryans.

@izzythepush,

That would not necessarily have been a raid, more an invasion attempt; but i think Harald's army could, at a stretch, be defined as Viking.

The point i'm making is that more than 150 years after Rollo invaded Normandy, i don't think it is reasonable to describe the Normans and their French allies as any longer being Vikings. If you look at this thread in context, you'll see how clueless the OP is. He wrote at one point that Vikings probably crossed the North Sea. Probably ? ! ? ! ? What a feckin' idjit. I can't imagine any Viking raid which did not cross the North Sea, unless it came from Iceland, the Scots Islands or the part of Ireland occupied by the Norse. This joker hasn't got a clue.

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Quote:

The ancient Indians

The Indo-Aryan people who invaded the Indian peninsula from Central Asia and Iran 3,500 years ago belonged mostly to haplogroups R1a, with also some R2 and J2. This is known from the analysis of Y-DNA of the upper castes of Indian society (the Brahmins and the Kshatriyas), thought to be descended from the Indo-Aryans with minimal admixture on the paternal side. The native Dravidians belonged to the indigenous South Asian haplogroups F, H and L.
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?25163-Y-DNA-haplogroups-of-ancient-civilizations

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@Setanta,

Agreed the OP hasn't got a clue, but Mc Tag makes a point. It's more a question of how you interpret the word Viking. Incidently the 1979 film 'North Sea hijack' was released in America as 'Assault Force' as it was thought that most Americans did not know where the North Sea was.

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@izzythepush,

McTag's point, however, was based solely on the place of origin of some--by no means all or even the majority--of William's invasion force. Those men were descended from "Vikings," if one loosely applies the term, but they were five or six generations beyond Rollo and his vikings. They spoke French, they wore French clothing, they wore French armor, they used French weapons and they used French operational and tactical doctrine. William sailed standard European transports, not long ships or knorrir, across the Channel to land a standard European army, based on standard European heavy cavalry, with some archers as back-up. In fact, they proved completely unable to break the Saxon shield wall, even though Harold's army had fought Harald, and then marched the length of the country to confront William. Had that one joker not gotten lucky, and put an arrow in the eye of Harold, William likely would have been defeated. Well, posted, the shiled wall could still make infantry the Queen of Battlers--and Harold posted his army well. Harold's army were fighting like vikings, relying on the shield wall. William's army were fighting in the standard European manner--nothing "viking-like" about them at all.

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@izzythepush,

What is the obsession which the English have with getting in digs about American ignorace all the time? Does that relieve a haunting sense of inferiority? Do you know where the Great Salt Lake is? Do most Englishmen? Do you have any idea of the scale of the Great Lakes? Do you know how many there are?

It's a pretty paltry game to belittle people because they don't know your backyard as well as you do.

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@melonkali,

melonkali wrote:

Interesting read, Talk, but what about the high Finnish percentage of a particular "L" Y haplotype subclave (I believe the Finns are considered the source for this one)? Considering that Finland was deservedly declared "the best place in the world to live" by Newsweek in December, 2010, and that the Finns have scored #1 across the board (three different skill areas) in recent international education/intelligence tests for college age students, would you not think their gene-pool demands serious consideration?! BTW: I have no relationship whatsoever with Finland or the Finns -- I just can't help but admire peoples who exhibit, en masse, exceptional abilities, and I'm always a little curious about their genetic makeup. rebecca

MISTAKE!! I made a MISTAKE!! Apologies to Finns -- it's an "N" Y-chromosome subclave that's their benchmark (and of which they presently seem the most likely source population), not an "L".

As I previously stated (correctly, I think), I'm in no way related to the Finns. Blame my MISTAKE on my genes. My particular genotype (the common U.S. "Atlantic Modal", Scot or "Scotch-Irish", Norman English, peppered with Norse and German) usually comes in third to Finns and Japanese on international tests of "smarts".

As for the Aryan issue in this thread, my latest understanding is that the geneticists and archeogeneticists (what an exciting new field) are almost daily breaking down previous classifications, and that there is no consensus at present time what exactly many labels, like "Aryan" or "Celtic", mean, if anything. At least genetically.

Notes to the above:
1) My last understanding was that the Finn gene modal is partially European-type and partially Altaic-Uralic-Baltic-whatever type? But presently classified as an "isolate" because of their unusual source "N" subclave? I'm not clear on the particulars.

2) Re: my above reference to "smarts" testing of the Japanese. When pure I.Q. (sans education and culture) was tested, the Japanese were included, I think, in a broader section which included some other East Asian peoples, but I'm not clear which other peoples were included in that group. Apologies -- I'm shamefully ignorant about East Asia peoples.

rebecca

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@Setanta,

I thought it may explain the OP's confusion with the English Channel. It was an observation.

I was first taught about the Great Lakes in Junior School, admittedly there was a BBC serialisation of Last of the Mohicans on at the time. I think most of us are aware of the great Salt Lake due to the numbers of missionaries from Utah who come round knocking on our doors.

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@izzythepush,

You can keep the LDS missionaries. I would say that most Americans have heard of the North Sea, the question would be whether they could find it on a map. At any event, it's a bit much to expect Americans to possess sophisticated knowledge of other people's geography.

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@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

You really are slow on the uptake. Our current resident anti-semite, Talk, wrote:

Quote:
I have relatives who are half Irish, half Danish and half African.

OK, i'll go really slow here. Half Irish (50%), half Danish (50%) and half African (505), which means 150%. You don't see the error there? You must be much more dense than i had previously thought. That a unitary thing, including one's ancestry, cannot be more than 100% of antying is not my belief, it's the sense of everyone who speaks the langauge--everyone, that is, who is not a completely clueless idiot. I'm not railing against this bigoted racist, i'm ridiculing him. And you, too, of course . . .

I assumed he understood that 150% is not mathematically correct, so he would be talking about three different relatives, and for whatever reason he chose to highlight the Irish, Danish and African lineage?

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@Setanta,

What do you mean we can keep them, they're yours? I never said that sophisticated knowledge of other countries geography was essential. It was the film distributors who made the decision to release North Sea Hijack as Assault Force.

Overall though I do think this is a cultural difference. We've always been an outward looking trading nation, we don't have a vast interior to occupy us. About 50% of the television programmes are American. The 20th century novel that most 16 year olds study for their Literature GCSE is Steinbeck's Of Mice And Men.

By the way when we studied the Great Lakes it was accompanied by a story about a toy carved wooden Indian in a canoe being launched somewhere in Lake Superior and making his way to the Atlantic. We were pretty much allowed to think that the Lakes were exclusively Canadian however, and we had a school trip to the Commonwealth Institute to study the 'Canadian' Great Lakes.

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@talk72000,

talk72000 wrote:

The percentage mean the 50 of 100 or 50% are so and so. They sampled 100 people and 30 are Haplogroup I1 so 30%, 28 are Haplogroup R1a so 28% and 24 are R1b so 24% and the remaining are other Haplogroup such as Q Haplogroup and so on. It is the Mitochondria that is a mix as most of our genes are in the X chromosome. The Haplogroup IJ split into I and J so Jews are J1 and thus Jews are closely related to Haplogroup I. The Aryans R1a and R1b split from Haplogroup NOP. The NO group is the Siberian Haplogroup and from them O split to form the East Asian Haplogroup O3. Q split form NO to form Q another Siberian group.

URL: http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/abstracts.html
If anyone gives this website credibility, then Jews are just a hybrid, often reflecting male Y chromosomes from the Middle East, and X chromosomes from native women where they resided. The explanation is that in the early first millenia, groups of Jews went to the hinterland to set up a trading post, and the sons married local women. The children were raised in the Jewish faith, which didn't offend the then still pagan populations most likely. Also, if one subscribes to the belief that intelligence, industriousness reflects culture, rather than genetics, then I believe it is easier to understand that some parts of the Earth may not seem as advanced, while the people that immigrate to a more modern society then might see their children appear very intelligent (there was no opportunity in the prior culture). Anyway, focussing on haplogroups, schmaplogroups, in my opinion, might be misinterpreted by the ignorant to point to some sort of "birthright" of a haplogroup from a specific place. Too many people on the left side of the bellcurve, from all haplogroups, to believe that a specific haplogroup confers anything special, in my opinion.

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@izzythepush,

Well, the Canadians can console themselves that they have the most spectacular part of Niagara Falls. However, they only have part of four of the Great Lakes. Lake Michigan is entirely within the territory of the United States.

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@Setanta,

I do know that. At the time however, I was taught by people for whom the empire was a recent memory. It was in Kent, the primary location for the Battle of Britain. It was the 1960s and we still played in bomb craters in the woods, our lot of our teachers remembered the Canadians who took part. Kent was pretty much the front line of WW2 for the summer of 1940. By the time Pearl Harbour, happened Hitler had already invaded Russia, and the front line had moved on. The Battle of Britain still has a particular place in the British psyche, and I think that was doubly the case in Kent in the 1960s.

Also we had a trip to the Commonwealth institute to consider. We also studied cocoa bean production in Ghana.

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Good sense has got to me. I must apologize for bringing this topic which I should have done it privately. My curiosity got the better of me. The people that helped me the most were the Irish and it appears I am an ingrate I must sincerely apologize. I shall not bring this topic again in public. I realize it hurt the people who helped me the most. I remember fondly the Irish Christian Brothers and I feel ashamed that I brought more hurt to people who had suffered thru the centuries. I know I am an asshole. I hope the Irish people will forgive me for this transgression.

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@melonkali,

My landlady was a Finn and her husband was a very good friend and landlord. A German Hungarian and Swede were the best friend. We went to a tea house to shoot the breeze. Hey, Pamela Anderson is a Finn so I can't really say too much bad stuff against the Finns.

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Scandinavia Vikings make have taken revenge on the R1a and R1b Aryans.

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