Martian blueberries are the chondrules of meteorites. Right?

@bewildered,

Sure. You got evidence that a deciduous plant evolved on another planet? Okay.

Do they make good jam?

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@bewildered,

Let's forget the fossil aspect of martian blueberries and meteorites.
Let's compare the two things from rock guy's point of view so that farmer may not say my toolbox is empty now.
First: the issue of number. Martian blueberries are all over Mars. Likewise, chondrules are all over meteorites, because 80% of meteorites are chondrites and 60-80 % of chondrites are chondrules. So, numerically Martian blueberries and chondrules are similarly abundant.
Second: the issue of physical morphology. Both berries and chondrules are round grains.
The diameters of chondrules range from a few microns to one cm. Martian berries are almost the same, ranging from 100 microns to one cm (?) in diameter.
Third: the issue of formation process. Both have experienced rapid heating to 1500-1900 degrees Centigrade within a few minutes and rapid cooling within a few hours immediately after heating. Both came from solid material and experienced molten state.
Fourth: the issue of chemical compostion. Martian berries contain nickel-rich haematite.
Haematite is Fe2O3. So, martian berries contain nickel and iron, which are the unique signatures of meteorites. Chondrules also contain iron and nickel, and other elements.
Fifth: the issue of minerals in the two things. Both contain olivines and other minerals.

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@bewildered,

I suspect most of my electronics contain nickel and iron and I doubt that my cell phone is a blueberry (it's not a Blackberry, either - rimshot, please). Seriously, these are not compelling arguments. They are a clutching at straws no matter how much you ignore what I'm saying.

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This is a seriously as this joker deserves to be taken . . .

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@Setanta,

Thanks for the oldie!

Blueberry muffin?

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1303/775999478_716d3e8526.jpg

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@bewildered,

Quote:

First: the issue of number. Martian blueberries are all over Mars. Likewise, chondrules are all over meteorites, because 80% of meteorites are chondrites and 60-80 % of chondrites are chondrules. So, numerically Martian blueberries and chondrules are similarly abundant.

So chrondules can make up 64% of a meteorite.

Are you saying Martian blueberries make up 64%of Mars?

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@bewildered,

But meanwhile...

The same structures are found here on earth.

http://www.unews.utah.edu/releases/04/jun/marsmarbles.html

1 Reply

@bewildered,

bewildered wrote:

Let's forget the fossil aspect of martian blueberries and meteorites.
Let's compare the two things from rock guy's point of view so that farmer may not say my toolbox is empty now.
First: the issue of number. Martian blueberries are all over Mars. Likewise, chondrules are all over meteorites, because 80% of meteorites are chondrites and 60-80 % of chondrites are chondrules. So, numerically Martian blueberries and chondrules are similarly abundant.
Second: the issue of physical morphology. Both berries and chondrules are round grains.
The diameters of chondrules range from a few microns to one cm. Martian berries are almost the same, ranging from 100 microns to one cm (?) in diameter.
Third: the issue of formation process. Both have experienced rapid heating to 1500-1900 degrees Centigrade within a few minutes and rapid cooling within a few hours immediately after heating. Both came from solid material and experienced molten state.
Fourth: the issue of chemical compostion. Martian berries contain nickel-rich haematite.
Haematite is Fe2O3. So, martian berries contain nickel and iron, which are the unique signatures of meteorites. Chondrules also contain iron and nickel, and other elements.
Fifth: the issue of minerals in the two things. Both contain olivines and other minerals.

Conclusion: Martian blueberries are meteorites.

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@bewildered,

bewildered wrote:

I have information to evidence the claim.

Goodie!!

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@parados,

Martian berries little resemble the Utah rocks you mentioned. See Quote from http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2007/pdf/1922.pdf :
"Although they have been labelled aqueous concretions [1], the “blueberries” or Ni-enriched hematitic spherules found by the Mars rover Opportunity at Meridiani Planum little resemble typi-cal terrestrial concretions, including concretions lo-cally disseminated in the Navajo Sandstone of Arizona and Utah, with which they most commonly have been compared [2]."

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Blueberries or Redberries ?

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@bewildered,

Most "chondrules" are ferro magnesian silicate minerals that are formed into spheroidal crystalline blobs. They have a strict igneous habit and can be analyzed and shown to be mostly made of feeromag minerals and olivine.
There is a crude areal spectrophotometer on thne Rovers and theyve looked at and analyzed the inteririors of some of the "blueberries" and, as I recall from previous readings, the blueberries are mostly
Haematitic and sulphosalt and iron and iron magnesian carbonate (Siderite /ankerite). These mineral habits are indicative of water solutions and even biotic emplacement. The blueberries on Martian rocks appear localized as in layers. and arent found all over but in layers of what appear to be sedimentary rock layers.

The fact that they are spheroidal and seem to be layered like concretions , and are collecting in specific layers seems to add initial wevidence that these are sedimentary rocks deposited in a past water rich environment .

Your mind seems to be one where you irresponsibly discard any evidence that doesnt support your worldview(its not even rising to the level of a hypothesis). You need to spend more time learning the full aspects of how these things were formed and deposited.

Go to the JPL site or visit EDgarblythes thread about "Rovers are on MArs" several people were providing various pictures from the Rover Mission and the blueberries came into much discussion.

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@farmerman,

I forgot, the inclusion of Ni is not uncommon from studies that were done as followups to the Rover spec readings. Several scientists went out and looked at earth deposits of these similar blueberries and came across them in aqueous deposit sands of formations oin the Wind River Group and the CAnyon lands. The magnetic susceptibility of the terrestrial blueberries follows the remnant magnetism of the formatins, indicating that, at least on earth, the deposits of the blueberries followed the same time and environment of the sediments in which there were formed. The conclusion was that, indeed , these things are layered sphwerules, similar to the MArtian ones and have similar chem makeup. AND the ones on earth are definately sed deposits.

NOONe has been able to reach a clear conclusion of the Martian blueberries without doing a remnant magnetic susceptibility study. There is talk of adding a remant magnetic susceptibility mini rig on any next generation Rovers (such as a spinner magnetometer and a fluxgate). So until they do, noone can be 100% ceratin what the genesis of these things are. Im betting on the sedimentary aqueous origin theory.

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Martian blueberries and meteorite chondrules did not rusult from volcanic or meteoritic or sedimentary activities. Martian berries and meteorite chondrules resulted from electric arcs (electric discharge), as mentioned at http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2005/arch05/050325blueberries.htm

To farmer: See this quote from http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2007/pdf/1922.pdf

"Conclusions: The Meridiani hematitic spherules do not appear to be sedimentary concretions – they are far too uniform in their shape, size, and distribution, and their Ni-enrichment is difficult to explain by any sedimentary process."

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@bewildered,

HAp McSween of U Tenn said
"

Quote:

"We see these strange round objects we're calling "spherules" embedded in the outcrop, like blueberries in a muffin. The outcrop erodes away as it gets sandblasted, and the spherules (which seem to resist erosion better than the rest of the outcrop does) fall out and roll down the hill. Weird." said Squyres. The spheres may have formed when molten rock was sprayed into the air by a volcano or a meteor impact. Or, they may be concretions, or accumulated material, formed by minerals coming out of solution as water diffused through rock, he said on a February 9 press conference.

Similar formations in several sandstones like the Navajo include these things on earth, Here we call em "Moqui MArbles' and they are hematite, fayalite AND goethite.(Two of these are sedimentary).
The parallel of the Mare Planum blueberries are an interesting feature because their emplacement seems to strongly indicate liquid water.

It appears that , I was not up to date on the occurence of the blueberries. They a[ppear to be shot through the rock units from earth evidence. However, we dont know their full distribution in the MAre because we only have minimal sampling and video.

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@bewildered,

Your "electric universe" yahoos are convincing you to believe with them because its nice to be a skeptic with an alternate theory. Yet the "Moqui marbkles" parallel is false unless he cleasrly understands that the mineralogy pof Moqui marbles is hematite AND GOETHITE (which is an Iron sesquihydroxide) and is an oxidation product of iron oxides in sedimentary water filled basins.
The tektite "evidence" is gleaned from the pits seen on the surface of the deeper zone specimens and, NOON has sawed one in half to be able to discount any mode of deposition

YA cant have it both ways dude.

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@farmerman,

I did not say Moqui marbles are the same as Martian berries. I quoted the link for "electric universe" just to show you there are other ways for forming the Martian berries besides the discredited sedimentary guesswork.

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@bewildered,

Most major alternative views on Mars site:

http://www.marsanomalyresearch.com/

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@bewildered,

A way that science often works is to find analogous structures to the "blueberries". So, in oder to do that, several of the national labs sent teams out to find anything on earth that looks and analyzes like the martian blueberries. When they did, they found similar structures in the Navajo Sandstone. Herein they found blueberries, or Moqui marbles and had a chance to conclude how they were formed.
The chemistry of the Moqui marbles is simmilar to blueberrie and lets us know that many things at different places in our solar system are similar after all.
You didnt say that Moqui marbles and blueberries are similar, JPL scientists did.

SCience is a bunch of slowly emerging conclusions that are consistent with evidence . Ive been trying to tell you that your method of jumpoing to conclusions based upon faulty assumptions isnt how science works.

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Martian blueberries are the chondrules of meteorites. Right?

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