Working with Russian language

Hey Ferrari27!

First of, no, Russian is absolutely not important in the countries you've mentioned. The languages you should better study are English, German, French, Spanish (to those who don't know it). Well, i know Russian myself and i know it is hard, indeed.

Secondly, i study languages at the university as well. I know perfectly English, German, Russian, besides i´m quite fluent in Estonian and Latin. Next year i'll have to study one more language, i'm taking either Spanish or French. :wink:

No again, at least for as far as I know.

Wow, I thought I was cool, knowing three languages and all. If I go for a degree in languages (and only some basic classes in translation), how many languages do you recommend I learn?

I'd like to become fluent in Japanese, but other than that I'm considering German or Korean. English and my native language are given, of course.

Russia etc are not really flavour of the day here in the Netherlands ... for example, in two universities they've had to close down the "Eastern Europe Studies" department because too few students enrolled. The "Second World Center" in Amsterdam, which focused on the (post)Soviet world - the magazine "Eastern Europe Explorations" - both closed. Russian films hardly make it to even the art-house cinemas anymore.

Hungary, Czechia, EU-accession countries draw some renewed interest, but Russia seems to have been given up. So in terms of academic and cultural interest, opportunities to find interesting work with Russian-centred skills are few.

But there are other jobs, of course. The Immigration service copes with a lot of asylum-seekers from Central Asia and the like who speak Russian. And my then-teacher of Russian at the university earned extra money as translator for the police; she complained that they'd call her awake sometimes, telling her - lookit, we've got this guy here, he doesnt speak anything but Russian ...

which two universities?

Conversely, with few graduating with Russian degrees, and with a bustling market of 120 m native speakers and millions more in the satellites, a degree in Russian could make you stand out from the crowd /and/ improve your job prospects. Though Russian is not the most every-day language in Western Europe, with Russia and Eastern Europe opening markets, you could find yourself head of Eastern European liaisons with little hassle... think of all the people with whom you would compete for translating French; think of all the few people with whom you'd compete for translating Russian... your chances are better.

Plus Russia has solicited a 'special relationship' with the EU according to El País.

In Utrecht, they closed the Slavic studies dept years ago, but kept a "East European History and Russia Studies" specialisation within the Algemene Letteren studies. I know, cause I did it <winks>. When I started, back in '90, there were some 40-45 students, in all. As of 2000 or 2001, the specialisation stopped because they couldn't find over a handful of new students for the new year. Courses were transferred to other specialisations (human rights) and Professor van Goudoever eventually left for the new, elite Utrecht University College (is I think what it's called).

And last month I heard - and I was flabbergasted - that the Eastern Europe Institute in Amsterdam has closed or is closing. They had the most amazing library. Students and teachers will be mostly transfered to some 'regular' line like European Studies or the like.

So that leaves ... Groningen, I believe, and Leiden, but Leiden was specialised in E-Eur law, didnt have an all round Eas Eur/Russia studies program.

Its the same everywhere - publications are shutting down, too. I used to love "Soviet Studies", later "Europe-Asia Studies" - doesnt exist anymore, I think. I have a subscription to the East European Constitutional Review, but this winter's issue was the last one. Country-by-country interest remains stable, I think, but Eastern Europe Studies as a region specialism has had its day, it seems.

I mean, it's logical, somehow - the differences within the old bloc become ever bigger, after all. There is really no more reason to want to somehow study both Hungary and Tadzhikistan. But I have the feeling that that has come to mean that, beyond the newly acceding EU member states like Poland, Hungary etc, there is practically no interest anymore, period.

Hmmmm ... that sounds very optimistic to me, drom ...

One thing is true, I must admit. With these region specialisms, like Eastern Europe Studies, the focus was on history, politics, etc, and in Utrecht for example, the language skills you were taught were basic. That was misguided. You stand a much better chance on the job market knowing the Russian language well and Russian history etc only elementarily, than vice versa. The language at least is a practical skill that few people have, whereas everybody knows something about history, politics etc - harder to have that set you apart.

Nevertheless, I think drom is being optimistic. You mention "opening markets", drom, but the thing is, you don't need Russian anymore for your business relations in former "satellites" like Poland, Czech, Hungary and so on, where most of the (relatively little) current investment that does go east goes. There's really relatively little investment and trade going on with Russia and the other former Soviet republics, where Russian would be a great asset. And with Putin's clampdown on the business magnates and shaky prospects for democracy, there is not much reason to believe it will soon be more, apart from some specific areas (e.g. oil & gas, shipping).

Mind you, I'm not at my best when it comes to economic data - it's not my forte. But take - found googling - these data on Belgian import and export in 1999 (bottom of the page). The Russian Federation was good for 0,7% of Belgian imports - and less than 0,7% of Belgian exports. Much smaller Poland alone already took more of Belgian exports (0,9%). Israel and India are at least three times as important than Russia for Belgium's exports, while Israel, China and Japan are some three times as important as Russia for Belgium's import.

Mind you, totally random economic stat, that, thats what Google does for you. In the same way I found this overview of Foreign Direct Investment inflows to the different countries of the world. Thats on a global level, mind you, not specifically from a Dutch, Belgian or EU perspective. It shows FDI to, say, China, increasing from 36 billion to 47 billion US $ between 1995 and 2001. Singapore received between 6 and 12 billion $ in those years, Poland between 4 and 10 billion, and FDI to the Czech Republic went up from 1 billion in 1997 to 5 billion in 2001 and 9 billion in 2002. In comparison, the Russian Federation has steadily received a mere 2 to 4 billion throughout these years - half of what Poland gets. None of the other former Soviet Union states ever got more than 1 billion.

Anyway - all thats just to say that, if you wanna get a job in trade or finance, Hebrew or Chinese might be at least as feasible choices. But who wants to work in trade or finance? ;-)

Was that at the VU or the UVA?

And don't they still have that library then? They have two amazing libraries full of books about language in the two buildings in the spuistraat, and the UB on the koningsplein is still there. Or did they store the books you are talking about somewhere else?

There are only six people who are studying linguistics at the UvA, I wonder if they'll take out that study too then. Maybe they will at the VU, cuz there are only two people studying it there...

UvA. And of course the UvA still has its libraries! But there was indeed a separate institute, the Eastern Europe Institute, with its own library and classrooms. And from what I hear, thats closed. <looks it up> The books have gone to the general library at the Bungehuis. The Eastern Europe Studies program has been merged into European Studies, with the possibility to specialise in the East, specifically, within one's general European Studies curriculum. Those working for the EEI have been reassigned etc.

The Eastern Europe Institute had an amazing array of newspapers and journals from around E-Europe ... I'm afraid only a selection of subscriptions will now be maintained, and the archives will partly go into the depot. The thing is - the EEI was the central place to go, to find all your info on Eastern Europe. The collection in Leiden is comparatively limited, the few shelves on Eas Eur in the Utrecht library are just that, and Groningen is a bit far-flung. Even if all the books and journals are still kept somewhere in the overall UvA library, it's a loss not to have such a central place anymore.

Anyway. I think I've strayed a bit from the topic...

Thank you all for your answers!!

As Olly says, Russian is a very difficult language. It is very different from the rest of European languages that I know, but I took it because they told me that Russian has a bright future.

However, I did not want to stick with it only. I´m studying English as my first foreign language, and I am also studying French in the state language school (this is one of the advantages of living in Spain; you can learn a language in a 5-year course almost for free.)

Anyway, the teaching level of Russian in my university is quite high, and we have a special grant to spend 3 months in Russia. I will study Russian in my degree and I will go to Russia to improve my skills. If I finish my degree and I see that the prospects of Russian are low I can always study more on English and French.

Thanks for your advice!! :wink:

Where exactly are you studying? And how hard is it to find a place to live there?

Nimh-- Yes, I know, the facts might be against it; but I think in travel terms, and although German and English have taken over Russia's place in Eastern Europe as the 'breite Sprache,' as I know both of those already, why not? I'm not so pragmatic now that I have gotten more used languages under grips.

You would say that learning Hebrew is more pragmatic than learning Russian?

Drom, i was merely referring to your post. You wrote about "a bustling market of 120 m native speakers and millions more in the satellites" that would ensure that a Russian degree would make one easily "head of Eastern European liaisons" or something, considering the importance of "Russia and Eastern Europe opening markets".

Thats all I was referring to ... I thought that was just a tad overly optimistic. Just pointing out that - alas - investment and trade in/with Russia and the former USSR republics is still very limited, barring one or two specific sectors ... and though it is much bigger with Central European countries like Poland, knowing Russian is hardly an advantage there anymore.

Trust me, I got sick of all those people breezing past on birthday parties about "hey, with that degree of yours, you can get a good job in no time, huh, with all those emerging markets and stuff?!" <sighs>

The Hebrew quip just came up as an extreme example because, exploring how limited trade with Russia actually still was, I found - even to my own surprise - that a country like Belgium has both more imports and exports with tiny Israel than with immense Russia. <blinks>

Anyway - there are LOTS of good reasons to study Russia and Russian. In travel terms, for example, like you say, very practical indeed. But above, you weren't talking travel terms, but finance jobs terms, so I went on a little (discouraging) research about that (I love digressing if it gets me to find out new facts).

Everything a little clearer now? ;-)

In Las Palmas de Gran Canaria University http://www.ulpgc.es

I don´t think it is hard to find a place to live in, but if you study and don´t have a considerable budget you can share a flat with other students.

Unlike many universities in Europe, you will not get lectures in English, just in Spanish. Maybe that´s the main disadvantage for foreign students. If you come to a Spanish university you will need a fairly good Spanish.