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Wed 7 Jan, 2004 11:45 am
The Farmers harvest all through the land was destroyed by the drought.
(should the word farmer--- be farmers, farmer's or farmers"?)
It was (Judas,Judas' Judas's) kiss that betrayed the Lord.
I say I should use Judas
My ( son-in-law, son's-in-law, son-in-law's) business prospered very much.
I belive it should be son-in-law's
Those books are (ours,our's ours'). I beleve its "ours"
Don't you think (its,it's its') time to go? ----- it's
Thank you, this is real confusing to me.
Re: Help with: 's,s,s' next to words.
Raelynn wrote:The Farmers harvest all through the land was destroyed by the drought.
(should the word farmer--- be farmers, farmer's or farmers"?)
Either
farmers or
farmer's or
farmers'.
The first would be used simply as an adjective and the second two are possesives. One plural and the other not.
There can be justification for all three uses depending on the meaning you wish to convey.
Quote:It was (Judas,Judas' Judas's) kiss that betrayed the Lord.
I say I should use Judas
Judas'
The style guide for writing a possesive of a word ending in 's' varies but I prefer the simple post-s apostrophe.
Quote:My ( son-in-law, son's-in-law, son-in-law's) business prospered very much.
I belive it should be son-in-law's
Correct.
Quote:Those books are (ours,our's ours'). I beleve its "ours"
Ours is already a possesive word.
Quote:Don't you think (its,it's its') time to go? ----- it's
Thank you, this is real confusing to me.
it's = it is
its = belonging to it
Technically speaking, any proper noun ending in "s" for which the possessive is constructed should have "apostrophe s" added, as in:
Judas, Judas's . . .
It has become common usage, however, to simply place the apostrophe after the final "s":
Judas, Judas' . . .
Either could be used without much objection, other than from those who enjoy picking nits.
For "son-in-law," the apostrophe "s" should follow the word "law":
son-in-law's, the possession of a single son-in-law
sons-in-law's, the possession of more than one son-in-law
With plural nouns to which an "s" is appended, the single apostrophe is technically correct, although the variant is acceptable:
famers, farmers'
or, famers, farmers's
The plural possessive "ours" would never take an apostrophe.
This is from The Chicago Style Manual--although i don't have it with me here at work, this very subject came up on talk radio last week, so i looked it up. There may be an error in what i've just given you, but i don't believe so.
One way to remember its/it's is this: Think of "it" as being "he." If the sentence reads, "It's a pencil," think, "He's a pencil." "He's" has an apostrophe; so should "it's." If the sentence had been, "The pencil lost its eraser" your substitution would be "The pencil lost his eraser." "His" has no apostrophe, neither should "its."
I hope that's not just more confusing. It helps me and has been helpful to others, but if it makes no sense to you, just ignore it...
I agree with
Setanta:* possessives of singular nouns take "apostrophe-s" in all cases, including singular nouns that end in "s." Thus "Judas's," not "Judas'."
This is a simple, straightforward rule that sensibly admits of no exceptions. The problem, unfortunately, is that the influential
Elements of Style gets this wrong. Messrs. Strunk & White start by giving the proper rule (indeed, it is Rule No. 1), but then add this absurd exception:
Exceptions are the possessives of ancient proper names in -es and -is, the possessive Jesus', and such forms as for conscience' sake, for righteousness' sake.
In other words, we should write "Charles's foot" but "Achilles' heel."
Frankly, I find that exception to be incomprehensibly weird, but there are still many teachers (and former students) who swear by Strunk & White and think they can do no wrong.
* I disagree, however, with
Setanta's example of "farmers's." Plurals ending in "s" take a single apostrophe to form the possessive: no exceptions. "Farmers's" is not just incorrect, it's ugly and incorrect.
I agree that the "farmers's" variant is ungainly, but i do believe Chicago Style lists it as correct, if not preferable. Once again, i don't have a copy at work.
I fully agree with you about Elements of Style, and would go so far as to say that it is a linguistic disaster for writing in more areas than simply this.
Oops, When I said Setanta was right, I hadn't noticed farmers's. That's not right. I have the Chicago Manual of Style. The only way that "farmers's" could be right would be if it were a proper name--Farmers--and you were making it possessive. Sorry.
I was taught that if you pronounced the second s, you put it on -- if you wanted to talk about something that belonged to the Jones family, you'd say "the Joneses house" -- so write "Jones's"... However, if you'd pronounce it "In Jesus name" -- then Jesus'.
I don't know if it's in any book, but I do know that the teacher who pounded that into my head was a real nit-picker!
No doubt you're correct, Roberta--this hasn't been sufficiently important to me to look it up again. I'm lazy and i'm proud.
Wy wrote:I was taught that if you pronounced the second s, you put it on -- if you wanted to talk about something that belonged to the Jones family, you'd say "the Joneses house" -- so write "Jones's"... However, if you'd pronounce it "In Jesus name" -- then Jesus'.
I don't know if it's in any book, but I do know that the teacher who pounded that into my head was a real nit-picker!
I've not consulted authoritave guides but from sites that I use:
I think the proper use is "the Jones' house"
"If the noun already has an -s ending to mark the plural, then the genitive marker appears only as an apostrophe after the plural form:
the boys' pens
the spiders' webs
the Browns' house "
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/internet-grammar/nouns/nouns.htm
but you are correct about proper nouns which end in s. We do say "Jesus's house" , "Tess's Diary"
" To proper nouns (name) ending in a sibilant (=sound like an S) we add an 's
Prince Charles's wedding was in 1981.
We walked through St James's park. "
http://www.learnenglish.be/STUDY_gram1_basics_genetive.htm
But Jones is a proper noun I hear you say. I'll think about it.
@Setanta,
Quote:I fully agree with you about Elements of Style, and would go so far as to say that it is a linguistic disaster for writing in more areas than simply this.
Setanta is right!! Let the bells ring out and the banners fly.
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