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Why not use "conceive" but "conceive of ?" Since both have the same meaning?

Forums: English, Esl, Grammar, Learning English, Efl
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oristarA
 
Reply Thu 19 May, 2011 09:31 am

Context:

In SuperCooperators, mathematical biologist Martin Nowak and New Scientist editor Roger Highfi eld present for nonspecialists recent progress in understanding how cooperation evolves from the competitive interactions
inherent in Darwinian dynamics. They argue that we now know enough about the mathematics of adaptation to conceive of cooperation as a fundamental
evolutionary principle and not merely as a surprising feature of biology in some way at odds with evolutionary processes.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 May, 2011 10:30 am
No, they don't have the same meaning. In this context, conceive of means to be able to formulate an idea consonant with the data.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 May, 2011 03:18 pm
@oristarA,
They argue that we now know enough about the mathematics of adaptation to conceive of cooperation as a fundamental evolutionary principle and not merely as a surprising feature of biology in some way at odds with evolutionary processes.

================

If we replaced 'conceive' with 'think', Ori, and took out 'of', would it sound natural to you?

They argue that we now know enough about the mathematics of adaptation to think cooperation as a ...
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 May, 2011 06:45 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

They argue that we now know enough about the mathematics of adaptation to conceive of cooperation as a fundamental evolutionary principle and not merely as a surprising feature of biology in some way at odds with evolutionary processes.

================

If we replaced 'conceive' with 'think', Ori, and took out 'of', would it sound natural to you?

They argue that we now know enough about the mathematics of adaptation to think cooperation as a ...


The usage of "think" sounds awkward to me, while the former delivers some scientific aura of grace.

My E-C dictionary tells me that "conceive" is almost as the same as "conceive of."

JTT
 
  0  
Reply Thu 19 May, 2011 06:57 pm
@oristarA,
Quote:
The usage of "think" sounds awkward to me, while the former delivers some scientific aura of grace.




My point wasn't that 'think' should replace 'conceive, Ori. It was simply that as 'think' can't occur there without 'of', neither can 'conceive'.

Regarding "think' as awkward; it's only because it needs 'of'.

Quote:
My E-C dictionary tells me that "conceive" is almost as the same as "conceive of."


I'd say THE same. Why an 'of' is sometimes needed eludes me at present.

================

I can't conceive that/ I can't conceive that she ...

I can't conceive of [something]

Just rambling thoughts ... .

oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 May, 2011 07:14 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Quote:
The usage of "think" sounds awkward to me, while the former delivers some scientific aura of grace.




My point wasn't that 'think' should replace 'conceive, Ori. It was simply that as 'think' can't occur there without 'of', neither can 'conceive'.

Regarding "think' as awkward; it's only because it needs 'of'.

Quote:
My E-C dictionary tells me that "conceive" is almost as the same as "conceive of."


I'd say THE same. Why an 'of' is sometimes needed eludes me at present.

================

I can't conceive that/ I can't conceive that she ...

I can't conceive of [something]

Just rambling thoughts ... .




Glad we've got an unspeakable nuance. Razz

That's good enough.

0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 May, 2011 07:17 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

No, they don't have the same meaning. In this context, conceive of means to be able to formulate an idea consonant with the data.


Very clear to me, with strong sense of mathematics.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Thu 19 May, 2011 07:34 pm
@oristarA,
Quote:
Setanta wrote:
No, they don't have the same meaning.


Ori: Very clear to me, with strong sense of mathematics.

I'm not sure what math has to do with it.

I'd say that Setanta is mistaken, Ori. Or he meant that they can't be used interchangeably. But they have the same meaning.

Always? I'm not sure about that. If there is a difference, I believe that it would be a difference in nuance.

I can't conceive of that.

I can't conceive that she would cheat like that.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 May, 2011 08:18 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Quote:
Setanta wrote:
No, they don't have the same meaning.


Ori: Very clear to me, with strong sense of mathematics.

I'm not sure what math has to do with it.



The math has gone through the posts:


oristarA wrote:

They argue that we now know enough about the mathematics of adaptation to conceive of cooperation as a fundamental
evolutionary principle and not merely as a surprising feature of biology in some way at odds with evolutionary processes.

Setanta wrote:

No, they don't have the same meaning. In this context, conceive of means to be able to formulate an idea consonant with the data.

0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 12:06 am
@oristarA,
Why not use "conceive" [but] instead of "conceive of ?"
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 04:35 am
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Why not use "conceive" [but] instead of "conceive of ?"


In that context, the latter conveys us a better rhythmic tone, IMHO.
0 Replies
 
 

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