The Sky is Falling!! and other Myths

maxdadeo- I always take a middle of the road position on this issue. As an animal lover who is also a realist, I understand that in many cases the needs of human beings surpass the needs of animals. I would not advocate the the non-use of needed land to save an owl, for instance.

On the other hand, I DO believe that human beings (especially politicians) do not really think to far into the future, in terms of planning for practical growth. I see it in my own area in Florida. We are on water austerity (we can only water lawns once a week), but the developments are springing up like chicken pox blisters.

There was one part of the article that, for me, really skewed the whole issue. The author mentions that one third of the wilderness area is taken by the arctic and antarctic. I don't think that the most environmentally UNconcious will be building any subdivisions there soon.

Bottom line, we need to take measures that will be good for the environment, without going overboard.

Thank you as always for your level headedness, Phoenix. Hopefully it will be the middle ground that will rule the day.

And also for the metaphor, it made me laugh, and itch!!

A HUGE image, several minutes to download on dial-up, but awesome; well worth the wait.


Earthlights


If you look at Northern Wisconsin, you can see very little. Castle Timber is located in one of the darkest areas, Northeast of Minneapolis, about due South of Duluth/Superior. A more than halfway serious joke around here is "Many of the roads are paved, there's phone and electric nearly everywhere, and most homes have indoor plumbing". That's wonderful. I love the outdoors; that's why I live here. As I type this, a pair of Bald Eagles can be seen through the office window, intently crisscrossing the air above the stubbled, snow-dusted West 40 in search of breakfast.



timber



timber

timberlandko: That one of Earthlights has always been one I liked. Just goes to show how so many of us in Cdn live close to the USA/Cdn border. I can almost make out the Okanagan Valley (or the Interior of this province) here in B.C., with not to many lights for the population is a bit light for we are in a farming area & if not that then it is a lot of hills, valleys, lakes & softwood timber.

Although I am ecologically minded, I am practical as well. I feel that the same as Phoenix...the Poles arent being populated anytime soon. However, even with that, I like to have hard facts and a great deal of information before I take to the road with the fever as I know there is always a more deeper story behind and around it.
For Example: There are those who would have hunting banned. You cant hunt this, you cant hunt that, at any time or in any situation. To me, thats extremism and its pretty sketchy.
There are areas where animal populations would be able to explode to the point of starvation and disease. They would also have a negative affect on nearby populations, etc.
While I dont condone a great deal of sport hunting, I think that hunting in general for food, etc should be allowed. I also believe that when herds are in danger, their numbers should be thinned.
So, basically...okay..the sky is falling but where, when, how and why before I even look up is how I approach it.
Knowledge is key to a great deal of these issues and you certainly have to give humanity a great deal of credit for becoming so technologically advanced to be able to get down to the bottom of them when we can, and that we certainly do our best to have an equilibrium of some sort, or at least we are working towards that.

Well, it seems to have the Conservation Extremists and the "slash and burn" groups at polar opposites. I tend to think both sides use "The Sky is Falling" as a political and PR tool for their views. A slong as both are doing it you end up at that middle Phoenix mentioned.

The eco-terrorists are just the lunatics that are at the far fringe of the Conservation mindset and those people haven't caught on that the claims are a bit of a stretch. Like others at the fringes of any group, they buy the party line hook, line and sinker. For them the world will end tomorrow if something isn't done today. The counter-balance to those idiots are the idiots that dump cleaning solvents in their backyard figuring that polluting their little acre is no big deal - there are plenty more areas that aren't polluted...

fishin

I think that is a very fair and balanced view. The extreme element is present in all movements and to be expected.

In the Pacific Northwest, logging is a hot button issue of course. If one asks a "NO CLEAR CUTS!" type what minimum size might be ecologically benign (an acre? ten foot square area?) they get a bit anxious and want to fall back on the simplicity of thier absolute. On the other hand, there are some bad boys around. I know the CEO of BC's worst rape and pillage logging company, and though he is a fine fellow in person, as a corporate citizen, he's about as sensitive to local concerns as Blackbeard.

Maxdadeo, it looks like those of us who have responded are pretty much in agreeement.

One reason I support the Nature Conservancy is their fair minded approach. An example is their habit of working with everyone involved with a project. In the west, they develop relationships with ranchers in order to protect the landscape without insisting that the ranchers change their practices to such an extent that they can no longer make any profit.
Unlike more radical organizations, they acknowledge and respect the needs of those on either side of the issue.

A couple of questions occurred to me while reading the article. One is how much of the undeveloped land is as uninhabitable as both poles? Another is who owns the unused land? I would like to know the likelyhood of that land being abused in the future. This is one reason that I usually support the acquisition of land by conservation agencies; at least there will be a certain amount of protection against irresponsible developers coming along in a few years and carving it up into desolate developements. I grew up in Arizona and have seen the housing developments eat up the desert without regard to saving the native plants, even though they make the desert a beautiful and desirable place to live. Like Phoenix' example of Florida, the same is happening in AZ. The water table is hundreds of feet lower than it was 30 yeas ago.

Greed is such an ingrained part of human nature that we will always need clear guidelines and laws that are actually enforced.

I read the posts here, and wasn't going to post as respondents were saying such balanced things, but then I realized I had to as I discovered I was somewhat offended by

Environmentalists are no more people with one opinion/'tack' than are men or Americans or Baptists or Eminem fans. I'm an environmentalist and a tap-water drinker. That puts me in the dangerous middle.

I found it a peculiar article. The author didn't seem to know which way to read the results. Was he trying to put an eco-spin on negative results, or a development-spin on positive results? I can't begin to guess whether he thought the study results were positive or negative.

The general results are not new to people who study this area. Similar studies have been coming out of Scandinavia and Canada for at least the past decade. And what do many 'environmentalists' say about the results? That we need to be cautious of what we're doing to the world, as the long-term implications of many of our actions aren't known yet. Most of the environmentalists I've worked with in the past decades have been cautious optimists, not Chicken Littles. As noted above, there are people at each end of the spectrum, but there are a lot of us in the middle, trying to find a balance.

extremists on either side tend to get a bit wacky-while i was in Spain last year i met a couple of americans who were members of PETA and they explained how we "abuse cows by milking them" i laughed, but then they asked me for directions to get to the bull fight that night. whats wrong with this picture?

ehBeth, it was not my intention to offend, I assure you.

I was speaking of those who put places and animals above people, I have little regard for those, or for those who intentionally misrepresent the severity of a problem to try to prove their point.

Do we need to be mindful and vigilant in preserving and protecting the great outdoors? Of course.

The point of the article, I believe, is that there are a lot more wilderness areas than we may imagine, and (for a change) I don't think there was a "hidden agenda" to the article.

I am unwilling to put the poles or other extreme locations in the category of "uninhabitable".

With the advent of technologies that tame the wilds of nature, I think that those areas we may now classify as "uninhabitable" may not be so considered such in 20 years or less.

~God,,, is Satan to blame for drug addiction? "NOOOOOOOOO!" AMEN!

"YOU are responsible for YOUR drug addictions amen."

Jesus H. Christ supposedly turned water into wine amen.

I turned "what little Green Gatorade i had into thinner Gatorade so i could "Not dehydrate after this happened to we*-


Fkn'n wow! huh?! God said "There's more where that came from."

God,,, people have said_

"Jesus died on the cross for our sins" Is that true? Mary said fk -"NOOOOOO!"
~God why did Jesus truly want to die? "Mary said "He's about to kill someone" I said "Pick me!" o o o o <waveshand and arm and starts dancing like Brian on a stage but truly means it and wonders why at the same time!>

God,,, Amen.

Prime Rib beg's to differ Amen.

~God i know some nice people that wish they could disappear for fourty years or more,,, "We are open to suggestions as far as,,, being open to suggestions go" -

"And the Lord said "ouch my god!"Held to thee highest standards ever pt amen." ouch bbl ,that means this*-


"didn't that suck,,,God could you refrase that so we can get a better perspective on it?"

~God,,, that was Pat Devine,,, i called him so,,,this is Y*-


"omfg" said the little girl. amen.

In Alcoholics Anonymous !because it's no one's business that i am a recovering alcholic and drug addict! i was told to make a list of (i/we hate so much that God can't handle our hate or he would kill himself) God is that true "yes!" said God amen.

"God,,, are you and Thee Holy men still getting hard on's,,, you know sexual erections when i get angry, sad, happy, basically if i/we were dead would you (not that we want you to do this to us anymore) **** our dead bodies?

"Ya we **** your dead bodies."

God and Thee Holy men,,, i/we thought,,, i just learned their "nobody put's anything like that in your head."

thanatophilia and necrolagnia are the same as necrophilia.

God why are there three names for fk'n a dead body "Mostly men fk dead females bodies."

God have you and Thee Holy men fk dead girl's bodies?" God just fk'd me again amen."

Paula Jean Gilbert Yannalfo
19 Vernon st
Bradford, Ma.

I was just told by a man who fk's dead girl's bodies that i am acting weird today amen.

Everyone,,, this is so DAM true!,,, if God and Thee Holy men are not happy everyone will suffer like i can't even describe except to say that you would wish you were dead,,, isn't that right God " Yes that is true. amen"

(btw that is or used to be illegal amen having sex with dead bodies.)