2
   

Laden Shot with WHAT???

 
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 May, 2011 07:43 pm
@roger,
roger wrote:
Generally. They have a post molded into the hollowpoint which pretty well insures expansion, yet is a light enough load to be safe in the aluminum framed airweight chief. There is no rounding of the bullet nose, by the way, giving them a profile similiar to a target type wadcutter load.
With a .38, there is not a whole lot of recoil,
but with a .44 (my choice, for more effective stopping power)
I like heavier weight (wate) to reduce some of the recoil.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 May, 2011 07:49 pm

The Military Channel advertizes that it will broadcast a show
at 1OPM on Monite qua the raid that killed Laden; "minute by minute," it said.

There is a decent chance that the armament of the raiding party
(SEALS and maybe Army Delta Force?? Maybe CIA??? I 'm not clear about that) will be revealed.

My impression, as of now, is that thay probably clipped him with M-4 Carbines.
At that range, that 'd almost certainly result in overpenetration.

We shall c what we shall c.





David
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 May, 2011 07:51 pm
@Ionus,
ADDENDUM

At a glance the gas bleed off on an M4 appears to be about 17% closer to the chamber, so the barrel length is doing nothing here .
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 May, 2011 10:35 pm
@Ionus,
I was told in basic circa 1962 that the bleed off port had negligible effect on muzzle velocity. This was the old M-1 Garand, and I cheerfully concede the lied about other things, too.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2011 01:06 am
@roger,
Quote:
I was told in basic circa 1962 that the bleed off port had negligible effect on muzzle velocity.
Perhaps they were referring to the adjustment of bleed off port because they didnt want stoppages due to a soldier not willing to lessen the muzzle velocity of his rifle . In which case, they were correct...the adjustment does not lessen muzzle velocity because it is adjusted when carbon has restricted the size of the bleed anyway .
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2011 01:50 am
@Ionus,
M-1 and M-14 were not adjustable. You could be correct as applied to other weapons. As I mentioned, they lied about other things - for our own good, usually.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2011 01:31 pm
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:
Does the 20" length allow the round to accelerate to its maximum velocity ?


I doubt it. Any time the barrel is short enough to warrant a flash suppressor, better performance can probably be had from a longer barrel.



Ionus wrote:
What barrel length gives the bullet its maximum speed ?


Not sure. It probably isn't the ideal sniper caliber, but it might be worthwhile to see how long sniper rifle barrels are in that caliber.



Ionus wrote:
I meant to say it bleeds off all the gas that would have continued to accelerate the bullet.


Yes. Why would they bleed it all off instead of just using only what is needed to cycle the action?

If they really do that, that's a good argument for the old HK designs.



Ionus wrote:
By adjusting the opening, you control the amount of gas used to recock and the extra is bled off, thus allowing you to field adjust stoppages due to carbon build up.


It would be better to leave the extra behind the bullet to accelerate it to higher velocities.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2011 01:32 pm
@roger,
roger wrote:
Hydroshocks. No longer sure what brand puts them out presently.


It'll probably always be Federal.
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2011 01:37 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
roger wrote:
Hydroshocks. No longer sure what brand puts them out presently.
R thay better than hollowpoints ?


I'd say they were a type of advanced hollowpoint.

They were invented by Tom Burczynski -- the same guy who also invented the Quik-Shok and Starfire designs.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2011 01:48 pm
@oralloy,
Hey, thanks for confirming something nobody else seems to have heard of.
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2011 06:31 pm
@roger,
roger wrote:
Hey, thanks for confirming something nobody else seems to have heard of.



If you can, you should try to find a store that will sell you the "police only" +P+ rounds.


EDIT: Forgot to add: You're welcome.
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2011 07:10 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
If you can, you should try to find a store that will sell you the "police only" +P+ rounds.


Of course, only if your gun is sturdy enough to fire +P+.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2011 09:06 pm
@oralloy,
Good advice, but I picked that particular load for being safe in the Airweight Chief, and not awful for an all steel J Frame S&W. I don't think it's much hotter than a match grade wadcutter. In fact, some people have loaded the hollow base wadcutter with the bullet loaded front to rear. Now you're talking about a real hollowpoint, not that I expect overwhelming penetration from either.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2011 07:17 pm
@roger,
roger wrote:
Good advice, but I picked that particular load for being safe in the Airweight Chief, and not awful for an all steel J Frame S&W. I don't think it's much hotter than a match grade wadcutter. In fact, some people have loaded the hollow base wadcutter with the bullet loaded front to rear. Now you're talking about a real hollowpoint,

not that I expect overwhelming penetration from either.
In my opinion, overpenetration shoud be avoided, if possible,
in that after leaving the target, the slug carries away somewhere out into America
the unexpended muzzle energy, which ideally, shoud have been deposited into the target for stopping power.





David
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2011 08:20 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Strive for balance, David. A four inch circle of something resembling a blob of solder on the middle of the chest isn't even going to inspire anger. Laughter perhaps. . . .
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2011 08:21 pm
@roger,
Good to see you back. I was within two days of worrying.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2011 08:58 pm
@roger,
roger wrote:
Strive for balance, David. A four inch circle of something resembling a blob of solder
on the middle of the chest isn't even going to inspire anger. Laughter perhaps. . . .
At close range, chances of overpenetration r very high.
I 'd like to think that use of my .44 special (not magnum) revolver
loaded with hollowpointed slugs woud not overpenetrate,
but I know that is unrealistic. At close range, overpenetration
is almost certain, even with the hollowpoints to put on the brakes inside the target.

I 'd never, never engage at a distant range.
For a civilian, that is not self-defense (except from an animal).

Of course, overpenetration might very well cause
death from exsanguination, but that takes time;
enuf time for the target to execute evil plans.
For instance:
a bum who jammed a broken bottle
into the throat of an officer of the NYPD in the 1960s,
after he was shot in the chest 6 times with a .38,
with fatal results for both parties before either of them perished.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2011 08:59 pm
@roger,
roger wrote:
Good to see you back. I was within two days of worrying.
U r very kind.

I was in the hospital for a while, with health issues.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 May, 2011 01:23 am
@OmSigDAVID,
All better now, I hope.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 May, 2011 03:51 am
@roger,
roger wrote:
All better now, I hope.
Thank u, Roger.





David
0 Replies
 
 

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