2
   

Laden Shot with WHAT???

 
 
Ionus
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 06:42 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
So a mass murder who love to be shown in tapes with weapons and firing weapons did not have a firearm in reach in his private living area??
They said today that he was reaching for a firearm when they shot him . They also said it was a 40 min firefight ......40 mins ? reaching for a firearm when they found him ? Did he sleep through the first 39 min 58 sec of the firefight ?
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 07:49 pm
@djjd62,
djjd62 wrote:

a bullet, i think


Bullets don't kill peo...

oh, wait...nvrmnd...
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 08:04 pm
@BillRM,
If you are at point that Navy Seals are coming after you, I don't think that having a pistol under your pillow is going to do much good. Your best hope is not being found.

I bet they had pretty big bombs at the ready if the raid didn't work.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 08:24 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
If you are at point that Navy Seals are coming after you, I don't think that having a pistol under your pillow is going to do much good. Your best hope is not being found.

I bet they had pretty big bombs at the ready if the raid didn't work.


No a firearm would had been worthless however it is normally human to go down fighting.

Second if I had been him I think I might had have the whole damn complex mine with a triggering device on my person so if the day came for such a raid I could at least had taken the raiding force with me.

But then if I had been him I would think that the ideal hiding place would had been driving a cab in New York City instead of living in a large compound in Pakistan. Drunk
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 May, 2011 03:08 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Does anyone know the armament
of the CIA or the Seals who shot Laden ??
Laden was allegedly firing "an automatic weapon" presumably an AK 47.

I heard that he allegedly was shot 2ice
in the left eye; that might suggest the probability
of a .223 caliber M-16 or a 9mm MP5 submachinegun. I dunno.

Has anyone heard ?





David



I heard that the shot took a big chunk out of his head, which is why they are wary of releasing the photo. That gives me the impression of something more powerful than a handgun.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 May, 2011 03:13 am
@gungasnake,
gungasnake wrote:
Like I said, that was just my own thoughts, IF I had to use a pistol for some reason...

Most believable reports indicate the seal team was using M4s which is probably what BinLaden was shot with. My understanding of an M4 is it's basically a high quality M16 with a fast twist barrel which can shoot 80-gr bullets instead of the normal 55s.


I don't think the M4 is a different quality than an M16. The difference is that the M4 has a short barrel.

The short barrel tends to hinder the velocity of the .223 in my view, though I guess plenty of knowledgeable people seem to think it is good enough, otherwise it wouldn't be used.
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 May, 2011 07:16 am
@Ionus,
Quote:
Panetta told "PBS NewsHour" that bin Laden "made some threatening moves" that "represented a clear threat to our guys" but was not more specific about what the unarmed terrorist did as the commandos engaged others at the compound in a firefight and burst into their prey's room.

"I don't think he had a lot of time to say anything," Panetta said. "It was a firefight going up that compound. ... This was all split-second action on the part of the SEALs."

Panetta underscored that Obama had given permission to kill the terrorist leader: "The authority here was to kill bin Laden," he said. "And obviously, under the rules of engagement, if he had in fact thrown up his hands, surrendered and didn't appear to be representing any kind of threat, then they were to capture him. But they had full authority to kill him."

After they shot him in the head and chest, the SEAL team in just minutes quickly swept bin Laden's compound for useful intelligence, making off with a cache of computer equipment and documents. The CIA was hurriedly setting up a task force to review the material from the highest level of al-Qaida's leadership.

The documents provide a rare opportunity for U.S. intelligence. When a midlevel terrorist is captured, his bosses know exactly what information might be compromised and can change plans. When the boss is taken, everything might be compromised but nobody knows for sure.

The revised account of bin Laden's final moments was one of many official details that have changed since he was killed in the nighttime raid early Monday morning in the Pakistani city of Abbottabad. The White House misidentified which of bin Laden's sons was killed — it was Khalid, not Hamza. Officials incorrectly said bin Laden's wife died in gunfire while serving as his human shield. That actually was the wife of a bin Laden aide, and she was just caught in crossfire, the White House said Tuesday.

White House Press Secretary Jay Carney attributed those discrepancies to the fog of war, saying the information was coming in bit by bit and was still being reviewed. Nevertheless, the contradictory statements may raise suspicions about the White House's version of events, given that no independent account from another source is likely to emerge. The only non-U.S. witnesses to survive the raid are in Pakistani custody.

Five people were killed in the raid, officials said: bin Laden; his son; his most trusted courier, Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti; and al-Kuwaiti's wife and brother. The latest White House account leaves open the question of whether there was any gunfire from bin Laden's defenders in his room before the commandos shot him.


More at the source
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 May, 2011 09:26 am
Rumor has it he was shot with an HK416, an assault rifle chambered in .223

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_%26_Koch_HK416

Rumor could be wrong.


No word on barrel length, but if an M855 round was going out of a long-enough barrel to get some velocity, I see why they are withholding the picture. Them bullets explode.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 May, 2011 06:14 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
was going out of a long-enough barrel to get some velocity
Its the explosive power that gives it the velocity...the barrel length and rifling improves accuracy .

In some hostage situations, they use low powered weapons so they dont get a bullet going through a bad guy and hitting a good guy...even after a ricochet high powered rounds leave a nasty mark....and people have been wounded by flying bone.....it all depends on whether there are hostages and if the baddies are wearing vests, etc...
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 May, 2011 07:15 pm
@Ionus,
Quote:
In some hostage situations, they use low powered weapons so they dont get a bullet going through a bad guy and hitting a good guy...even after a ricochet high powered rounds leave a nasty mark....and people have been wounded by flying bone.....it all depends on whether there are hostages and if the baddies are wearing vests, etc...


I had hear correctly or not that a lot of special forces still prefer the old 1911 colt model A 45 with it nice heavy and slow round for a sidearm.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 May, 2011 07:20 pm
@BillRM,
Its a long time ago since I worked with the SASR and I can only say what they used to prefer...but certainly somethings never change even when pistols do....I certainly liked it and always managed to get a maximum score with it...but even when I was young I was old fashioned .
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 May, 2011 07:14 am
Personally I could care less what Bin Laden was shot with, but then I guess you got to be into that kind of thing.

On whether Bin Laden was armed or whether there was resistance, it seems that was only one man who was armed and got off a shot, it was in the guest house. He was killed. In the main house, it seems the SEAL just systematically went through the house and killed the main people and gathered up evidence for useful intel. It seems they were careful not to kill the women and children.

Bin Laden 'firefight': Only one man was armed
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 May, 2011 04:31 pm
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:
Oralloy wrote:
was going out of a long-enough barrel to get some velocity


Its the explosive power that gives it the velocity...the barrel length and rifling improves accuracy .


By explosive power you are referring to the gunpowder propelling the bullet?

You need the long barrel of the rifle to contain the pressure behind the bullet long enough for it to accelerate to rifle velocities.

If the rifle barrel is too short, energy that could go to accelerating the bullet just causes a brighter flash and a louder bang. Flash suppressors help manage that, but they don't restore lost bullet velocity.
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 May, 2011 04:37 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:


Does anyone know the armament
of the CIA or the Seals who shot Laden ??
Laden was allegedly firing "an automatic weapon" presumably an AK 47.

I heard that he allegedly was shot 2ice
in the left eye; that might suggest the probability
of a .223 caliber M-16 or a 9mm MP5 submachinegun. I dunno.

Has anyone heard ?





David

Admiral Dennis Blair (formerly DNI) said it was a 7.62 mm bullet. There was a large exit wound on the back of Bin Laden's skull - well, there would be.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 May, 2011 04:56 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
You need the long barrel of the rifle to contain the pressure behind the bullet long enough for it to accelerate to rifle velocities.
You dont need a long barrel, you need a barrel long enough and there are degrees of burning speeds for gunpowder . Even with a short barrel, most of the explosive force has already acted on the bullet . True, a standard round in a standard barrel length probably makes a slight bit of difference to speed, but to someone without a vest at close range the effect is negligible . The bullet is still supersonic and I wouldnt want to be hit by one at long range either .

Flash suppressors are for the elimination of flash . Any contribution they give to velocity is very minor .
Ionus
 
  2  
Reply Thu 5 May, 2011 04:58 pm
@High Seas,
Quote:
it was a 7.62 mm bullet.
That would have been my choice, as I said earlier it goes through vests . 7.62.....such fond memories !!
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 May, 2011 05:17 pm
@Ionus,
The old Three-line - some people here (not yet converted to the metric system!) would know it as the .30 in. Very popular caliber for well over a century.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 May, 2011 05:20 pm
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:
Oralloy wrote:
You need the long barrel of the rifle to contain the pressure behind the bullet long enough for it to accelerate to rifle velocities.


You dont need a long barrel, you need a barrel long enough


To get high rifle velocities, only a long barrel is long enough.



Ionus wrote:
and there are degrees of burning speeds for gunpowder.


Rifles use slower-burning powder, and the bullet accelerates along the length of the barrel.



Ionus wrote:
Even with a short barrel, most of the explosive force has already acted on the bullet .


Not in a centerfire rifle.



Ionus wrote:
True, a standard round in a standard barrel length probably makes a slight bit of difference to speed, but to someone without a vest at close range the effect is negligible . The bullet is still supersonic and I wouldnt want to be hit by one at long range either .


The difference between "a .223 round going fast enough to explode" and "a .223 round not going fast enough to explode" is substantial.



Ionus wrote:
Flash suppressors are for the elimination of flash . Any contribution they give to velocity is very minor .


Correct.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 May, 2011 05:26 pm
They say he was shot in the eye. There's only one group of people who carry out killings like that. Are you telling me the Navy seals killed Bin Laden in exactly the same way Mo Green was shot. Of course they didn't, it can only have been Tony Soprano. And the reason they won't show photographs of the corpse is because they stuck a rat in his mouth.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 May, 2011 05:30 pm
@oralloy,
OBL was killed with extreme prejudice
 

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