The creation of everything... How?

@BillRM,

That much is true and unfortunately many find usefulness in blurring the waters to take some advantage out of it...Einstein´s God is something very abstract and far way from the commoner´s view...
(more to do with mathematics and order and nothing to do with a personal God)

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@BillRM,

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So a mapping project that involved the Hubble space telescope and the government and years of work by a numbers of top universities is bullshit because you do not care for the results????

Neither you, NASA, nor anybody else has any sort of a map of "dark matter(TM)", and that's precisely because no such thing exists in the real world.

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@gungasnake,

Dark matter does not exist!!!!

Well you happen to be in total disagreement with almost every scientists alive but what the hell if you do not wish to belief in dark matter or dark energy for that matter it ok with me.

Hell if you wish to believe that the world is as flat as your head also be my guest.

By the way normal matter/energy is only 5 percents of the total matter/energy in the universe by current measurements.

We live in a wonderful and remarkable universe far more remarkable then the small and poor one that you live in with your silly god.

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@BillRM,

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By the way normal matter/energy is only 5 percents of the total matter/energy in the universe by current measurements....

All such thinking is based on the outmoded and wrong notion of gravity alone binding cosmic objects together, and amount to a fudge factor which the idiots involved in such projects view as necessary to make that happen.

Nonetheless even the bullshit claim of 95% of the universe for "dark matter(TM)" would be nowhere near enough.

The distance from here to AC is typical of the Milky Way. Asking gravity to bind Sol and AC together is entirely the same thing as asking it to hold two dust motes together from four miles distance.

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"Ah, but DARK MATTER will save the day!!! All we need is for dark matter to be 95% of the universe"

Dark matter being 19 of 20 parts of the universe makes the afore mentioned problem of gravity binding Sol to AC equivalent to asking it to bind two dust motes together from one fifth of a mile; that's right, that's two of those mile marker signs you see on the highway. That's still ******* idiotic.

In real life, gravity is by many orders of magnitude the weakest of all forces in nature and plays no part in binding galaxies together; electromagnetic forces do that.

When you see a galaxy in the form of a half swastika:

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/9905/ngc6872_vlt.jpg

or a hexagon:

http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2011/image11/110310m61.jpg

you are looking at electromagnetic and plasma physics effects, and not anything gravity is capable of.

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@gungasnake,

You poor person getting this nonsense from religion anti-science websites.

Sorry gravity is weak but it also happen to be the long distant force that hold the moon in orbit around the earth and the earth in orbit around the sun just to start with. Hell the sun fairly small mass allowed it to hold objects in orbit around it at ranges of over a 100 times the distance of the earth to the sun.

The basic equations had been known for the last four hundred years roughly and can be found in any physic book.

Dark matter had been found and map by it bending of light waves and is as real as anything else in the universe.

Given the dark matter found by light bending the Galaxies behaviors is 100 percents cover by gravity and the laws first found by Newton.

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@BillRM,

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You poor person getting this nonsense from religion anti-science websites....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeV-DI09Q3w&NR=1&feature=fvwp

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@BillRM,

You know, in the moment I am writing this I am pretty much fed up. I can't take much more. One ass on one side insisting that his explanation is the only right one. Next to him there is another scrub, insisting that this or that theoretical view has to be included, because that is how it seems to him. And the third guy insisting that they are all wrong, because his interpretation of 2000 year old philosophy has given him the answer...

Everyone who thinks they know something, here is my message to you:

**** off! I have no need for self righteous retards who can't see past their own capacity for logic thought. Its like watching some idiot trying to prove that the world exists only because he thinks of it. My word of advice to all you retards who think you know everything: Remind yourself that there are billions of people in the world, and you are no smarter than any of them! You are not alone here.

Now the real shame in all this is that the people who are the true recipients of this rant are the ones who will dismiss it out of hand, while the ones who can safely dismiss it because it does not address them are the ones who are likely to give it considertion. A real shame.

But Bill, please either step up or shut up. Either you apply your brain to the issue or we give it a rest. I have no interest in you spewing out irrelevant **** just to cover the fact that you bit off more than you can chew. I get enough of that crap from guigus. End of the line in this case is that the "big bang theory" is a ******* fairly tale. It is a description we humans have created as an explanation to how the world appears to us. If you miss that single point you are just a waste of my time.

(Btw, this is a sample of cyracuz after too much alcohol. It feels liberating!)

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@Cyracuz,

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End of the line in this case is that the "big bang theory" is a ******* fairly tale. It is a description we humans have created as an explanation to how the world appears to us. If you miss that single point you are just a waste of my time.

So one of the most accepted theory in science with all manners of supporting evidence to the point that the very shape of the early universe is known is a fairy tale?

Bet you had not read a science text book in your life, let alone had kept up with all the wonderful research being done.

Sad that we have such a population of people who may as well be back in the dark ages before Newton birth for all the science they happen to know.

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Remind yourself that there are billions of people in the world, and you are no smarter than any of them! You are not alone here.

I had stand on the shoulders of giants that had given the human race reason and science and all the billions of humans who still wish to live in a pre-reason, prescience era are fools.

To be fair only people like you who have the means to tap all this knowledge at their figure tips are fools as you can not blamed the poor masses who lack the education and the means such as books and internet access for being in the dark ages yet.

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@BillRM,

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So one of the most accepted theory in science with all manners of supporting evidence to the point that the very shape of the early universe is known is a fairy tale?

Yes! Unless you can percieve it directly you have to conceptualize it. And when you conceptulaize you will relate the concepts together according to your understanding of how they relate together when you percieve them directly. (If you use a river metaphor to describe time, it is easy to start assigning attributes to time that are actually attriutes of the river.)

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To be fair only people like you who have the means to tap all this knowledge at their figure tips are fools as you can not blamed the poor masses who lack the education and the means such as books and internet access for being in the dark ages yet.

And the sad truth is that whatever we think we know is a bigger obstacle than all the dictators of the world combined. It is one of my greatest sources of worry that despite my every growing well of knowledge, my incomprehension remains. Defending the big bang theory with all of your energy only leaves you incapable of conceptualizing cosmic models that correspond better to the facts we have today, as opposed to facts we had fifty years ago.

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@Cyracuz,

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Defending the big bang theory with all of your energy only leaves you incapable of conceptualizing cosmic models that correspond better to the facts we have today, as opposed to facts we had fifty years ago.

We have today the accepted big bang model and fifty years ago the two theories was the big bang and steady state theory and then those damn AT&T engineers found by accident the background radiance from the big bang at just the wavelength that the theory had predicted.

From that beginning we had build more and more instruments with ever-increasing sensitivity and resolution.

Then the instruments were mounted on highflying balloons and then aircrafts such as the U2 and then satellites.

Every bit of information of ever increasing details had not only supported totally the big bang theory but had given remarkable knowledge of what the universe was like in it first million years or so.

It is sad that you are either being very dishonest in calling the theory a fairy tale or you have somehow manage over the last fifty years to learn nothing of that area of human knowledge.

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@BillRM,

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It is sad that you are either being very dishonest in calling the theory a fairy tale or you have somehow manage over the last fifty years to learn nothing of that area of human knowledge.

I have, over the course of the last five years, come to realize that an explosion 13 billion years ago is as incomprehensible to me as the notion of a god.
Both are beyond our capacity to grasp. It is not something we can percieve with any of our senses, so big bang is just as abstract as god. That you chose to believe in big bang rather than god has less to do with science and more to do with fashion.

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@gungasnake,

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The creation of everything... How?

How 'd Ed Poe answer that ?

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@Cyracuz,

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I have, over the course of the last five years, come to realize that an explosion 13 billion years ago is as incomprehensible to me as the notion of a god.
Both are beyond our capacity to grasp. It is not something we can percieve with any of our senses, so big bang is just as abstract as god. That you chose to believe in big bang rather than god has less to do with science and more to do with fashion.

Sorry you are so handicapped however that does not change the fact the theory is back by all the evidences in the last fifty years.

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@BillRM,

That's what I am used to hearing from religious nuts who fail to explain to me why their belief is the only true one.
You seem to ignore the consideration that what we seek to explain neccesarily has an impact on the explanation itself along with the facts we have at our disposal.

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@Cyracuz,

If you can no tell, the different between an accepted scientific theory with fifty years of hard proofs behind it and a religion fairy tale that is your emotional problem not a problem with the theory.

How valid a scientific theory is or is not only repeat only depend on how closely the theory match and explain the known facts. Also how it allow correct predictions such as that there would be a background radiation found coming from all directions at a given wavelength.

Einstein for example could not emotionally accept the theory of quantum mechanic however, his emotional reactions had no bearing on the theory being valid or not.

Neither Einstein nor your emotions have any impacts one way or another on a scientific theory or the functioning of the universe.

Oh, it also work both ways Fed Hoyle holding onto his steady state theory after is was found not to match the known facts in the early 1950s did not impact his beloved theory being true or not.

For myself, I would had far prefer the simpler Newtonian laws to be more then a special case of Einstein theories however the universe will not bend even for me.

To sum up your are doing a form of magical thinking, that your emotional reactions/feelings in some manner control how the universe function.

.

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As I mentioned, "Bit Bang" is no longer "accepted(TM)" by people with brains and talent; some of you might want to check out the resumes of some of the people who do not accept it, again:

http://www.cosmologystatement.org

That includes leadership echelons at several very serious kinds of places at which plasma physics is studied, including Los Alamos.

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@BillRM,

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The basic equations [gravity] had been known for the last four hundred years roughly and can be found in any physic book.

The problem is that gravity's power falls off as the inverse square of distance and the distances between stars are too huge. Gravity cannot form galaxies or bind them together.

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@BillRM,

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If you can no tell, the different between an accepted scientific theory with fifty years of hard proofs behind it and a religion fairy tale that is your emotional problem not a problem with the theory.

I have no problem seeing the difference between the two.
You, however, fail to see the similarities. You even appear to deny that there are similarities.

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@gungasnake,

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The problem is that gravity's power falls off as the inverse square of distance and the distances between stars are too huge. Gravity cannot form galaxies or bind them together.

That is why you wish to refuse the proven existent of Dark Matter so your claimed can made some kind of sense.

However the gravity lensing effect on light had proven that dark matter is every bit as real as matter and even allow the mass around galaxies and in the universe on the whole to be had found to a high degree of accuracy.

Sadly for the craziness on the anti-science websites the equations match perfectly.

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@Cyracuz,

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You, however, fail to see the similarities. You even appear to deny that there are similarities.

Other then both show the very human wish to understand the universe we are born into there is zero similarities.

One is back by proven facts and the religion stories are back by nothing at all but second rate human fantasies.

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The creation of everything... How?

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