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How to pronounce "de"?

 
 
Reply Sun 27 Mar, 2011 07:50 am
[di:]?

Context:

no one is as well remembered as the Marquis de Lafayette.
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Type: Question • Score: 3 • Views: 5,866 • Replies: 13
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dadpad
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Mar, 2011 08:11 am
@oristarA,
some say dee. like we me he.
some say d' like the d sound in thud or dog. I prefer this form of pronunciation which i understand is closer to the original french pronunciation

de is of french origen and means "of"
no one is as well remembered as the Marquis of Lafayette.
contrex
 
  2  
Reply Sun 27 Mar, 2011 01:05 pm
@dadpad,
dadpad wrote:
some say dee. like we me he.
some say d' like the d sound in thud or dog. I prefer this form of pronunciation which i understand is closer to the original french pronunciation

de is of french origen and means "of"
no one is as well remembered as the Marquis of Lafayette.


...I would suggest that the Marquis de Sade might beat him in the memory stakes.

I know that when foreign words and phrases are imported into English, the pronunciation can become anglicised, but in general this does not apply to proper names (with a number of exceptions e.g. Paris). Family names can be pronounced the English way if they are of long standing like many American names of European origin.

Saying "dee" to rhyme with we, me, he would be considered a mistake by French people, and since the Marquis de Lafayette was indubitably a Frenchman, we should do him (or rather his memory) the courtesy of pronouncing his name properly. The 'e' of 'de' is pronounced like the 'e' in the English words later, father, summer, faster, etc. The 'qu' of Marquis is pronounced like the letter 'k' in kill, book, make, etc. , and the final 's' of Marquis is silent.

oristarA
 
  0  
Reply Mon 28 Mar, 2011 01:13 am
@contrex,
Cool.

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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Mar, 2011 03:10 am
In the case of Marquis de Lafayette, the "de" is elided with the word "marquis," so that it becomes (almost) "markey'd lafayette." That does not do any real violence to the Frenchpronunciation. The french commonly elide pronunciations.
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Mar, 2011 10:37 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

In the case of Marquis de Lafayette, the "de" is elided with the word "marquis," so that it becomes (almost) "markey'd lafayette." That does not do any real violence to the Frenchpronunciation. The french commonly elide pronunciations.


In conversation, sure, but in a school or formal setting, the 'de' would be pronounced distinctly.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Mar, 2011 10:58 am
In school, perhaps, one might be subjected to the prissy insistence of an instructor, but i deny that there is any "formal" situation in which one would be obliged to abandon elision, a standard feature of spoken French.
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Mar, 2011 11:24 am
@Setanta,
L’élision est obligatoire en français pour le phonème /ǝ/ (dit « e caduc » ou « e muet ») en fin de mot devant une voyelle. Le père de Jean vient de partir mais le père d'Albert vient d'arriver. Le mot « Lafayette » n'est pas doté d'une voyelle initiale.



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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Mar, 2011 11:28 am
Je said bein tout ça.
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Mar, 2011 12:20 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

Je said bein tout ça.


said ? bein ?

Setanta
 
  0  
Reply Mon 28 Mar, 2011 12:23 pm
@contrex,
Typos, jackass. The existence of a rule for elision does not constitute a prohibition of elision in all other cases. You really are a world-class dick.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Mon 28 Mar, 2011 02:49 pm
@contrex,
Quote:
In conversation, sure, but in a school or formal setting, the 'de' would be pronounced distinctly.


I'd say that this is pretty much how it would be for any and every language.
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Mar, 2011 03:34 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Quote:
In conversation, sure, but in a school or formal setting, the 'de' would be pronounced distinctly.


I'd say that this is pretty much how it would be for any and every language.


Given the nature of his question, I believe that is what OristarA wanted to know. Not how a bus driver from Clermont-Ferrand might (or might not!) pronounce it when having a chat with his pals.

JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Mar, 2011 03:59 pm
@contrex,
I'm not sure what all he wanted, C, but I was just noting that elision has got to be a feature of every language on the planet.

I think it was instructive for him to find out all he did.
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