Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 10:05 am
especially moms but nearly as many dads, when do you you cut loose your children to be self-responsible adults, be they in their 20's, 30's, 40's 50's etc.? or, is this a socialization change.
 
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 10:16 am
@dyslexia,
I'm 60 and for me it was around age 18 but clearly by age 21. Nowadays it seems to have crept up to about age 30. Of course, this assumes the parents have been trained properly themselves. Looking around, it's not looking that good.
0 Replies
 
Gargamel
 
  2  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 10:51 am
AVE MARIA
by Frank O'Hara


Mothers of America
let your kids go to the movies!
get them out of the house so they won't know what you're up to
it's true that fresh air is good for the body
but what about the soul
that grows in darkness, embossed by silvery images
and when you grow old as grow old you must
they won't hate you
they won't criticize you they won't know
they'll be in some glamorous country
they first saw on a Saturday afternoon or playing hookey

they may even be grateful to you
for their first sexual experience
which only cost you a quarter
and didn't upset the peaceful home
they will know where candy bars come from
and gratuitous bags of popcorn
as gratuitous as leaving the movie before it's over
with a pleasant stranger whose apartment is in the Heaven on Earth Bldg
near the Williamsburg Bridge
oh mothers you will have made the little tykes
so happy because if nobody does pick them up in the movies
they won't know the difference
and if somebody does it'll be sheer gravy
and they'll have been truly entertained either way
instead of hanging around the yard
or up in their room
hating you
prematurely since you won't have done anything horribly mean yet
except keeping them from the darker joys
it's unforgivable the latter
so don't blame me if you won't take this advice
and the family breaks up
and your children grow old and blind in front of a TV set
seeing
movies you wouldn't let them see when they were young
0 Replies
 
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 10:56 am
My deal is, I told my kids I didn't want to be a grandmother before I looked the part. They could live here till they finished school, but after that they are on there own or they pay me massive amounts of rent. They've known this for a very long time.
They've always been pretty independent, I guess, being a single mom did have it's benefits.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 11:02 am
@dyslexia,
Aren't there going to be at least as many variations as there are cultures and parents?

In many cultures it is not acceptable for people to leave their parents' home unless/until they are leaving to get married - whether they are male or female.
0 Replies
 
aidan
 
  3  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 11:23 am
I had to meet with my daughter's teacher, a week ago today as a matter of fact, because she wasn't doing her homework and had cut class a number of times in the past month or so.
The teacher wanted to show me a list of the work she was missing and wanted me to agree to take the list and check off the assignments as my daughter completed them.
She seemed absolutely shocked when I refused to do this.
My daughter is eighteen years old. I told the teacher that she should give the list to my daughter and make her responsible for her work and that I wouldn't participate in babying her by standing over her and checking off her homework list as if she was a six year old child.

I was sort of shocked that she expected me to. When I was in school, if you didn't hand in a paper the day it was due, the highest grade you could get the next day was a B- two days late the highest you could get was a C- three days late, a D and if it wasn't in by the end of that school week - you might as well forget about it - you'd get an F.
These teachers are giving these kids weeks and months to hand in work.

I will gladly help my children with whatever help they need as long as I see them trying their hardest and making an honest effort to help themselves.
But if they're slackers - they're on their own with that.
I think they need to learn how that sort of thing works out for them in the long run.

My son is very self-sufficient. My daughter needs a little more work in that area. That might be partly my fault. She is my youngest, a girl, adopted and has a hearing disability. I may have coddled her a bit.

In general, I'd hope that my children would be self-sufficient by the age of 22 (if they go to college) and 20 if they choose to work. I was at 22 when I graduated college and got my first job and their father has been since he was sixteen.
boomerang
 
  3  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 12:21 pm
This is where I really notice the generation gap between me and the parents of Mo's peers. (I've got a solid 10-15 years on most of them.)

I had great parents but if I were to parent Mo the way I was parented I would most likely be having an interview with the child welfare office. Benign neglect was the name of the game and most of us grew up, moved out, got jobs and survived on our own quite well.

It seems to me that nobody trusts their kids anymore. Nobody lets them make any decisions. Nobody lets them be bored.

Then they complain that young adults are irresponsible and don't know how to take care of themselves without ever thinking that they've been trained to be incompetent.

Crazy.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 12:42 pm
@dyslexia,
Quote:
when do you you cut loose your children to be self-responsible adults, be they in their 20's, 30's, 40's 50's etc.? or, is this a socialization change.
21, though with maybe some financial help for a few more years. It is a gradual hand off...I expect them to be responsible for their education upon entering high school (though we help with university costs), their sexual selves at 15, their drinking and drug use 18...at 21 they need to be out of the house and mostly supporting themselves. These expectations were communicated to them at an early age.

I see a lot of parents who dont expect self sufficiency till early 30's. Also we are supposed to be intimately involved with HS, for instance I get emails about assignments and sports practice time which I am not interested in. My kid has a car, alarm clock, school supplies to include a planner....the rest is up to him.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 02:59 pm
All four of my childeren left home before they were twenty. Two came home once or twice, early on, but all became self sufficient very quickly.
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 03:28 pm
@edgarblythe,
I'm pretty sure my parents changed the locks after the last one of us left lol. They're fine with us going home for visits, though Smile
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 03:37 pm
@dyslexia,
Depends on what "cut loose" means I guess.

On the one hand, I try to give my kid a opportunities for independence and responsibility now and have for a while, and she's well under 18. So I think that starts early, not just an abrupt shift at some point.

On the other hand, while I have expectations of independence and responsibility once she graduates from high school (college most likely, some sort of gap year possible, other options up to her and her preferences and possibilities at that point), I don't think I'd completely cut her loose, ever. I'd probably let her get pretty low to learn stuff about consequences of actions, that kind of thing. But if, for example, she needed some sort of life-saving surgery and she couldn't get a loan and she didn't have enough money for it, and I did, I wouldn't say "yeah sorry about that, too bad so sad." I'd contribute.

There was an article in the New Yorker recently about a new life stage, the one between college and starting a family pretty much, can't remember enough about it now. It does seem to be relatively new though. Will try to look it up later. (On my way out the door at the mo.)
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 04:10 pm
@aidan,
What is the English age of adulthood ?





David
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 04:22 pm
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:
This is where I really notice the generation gap between me and the parents of Mo's peers. (I've got a solid 10-15 years on most of them.)

I had great parents but if I were to parent Mo the way I was parented I would most likely be having an interview with the child welfare office. Benign neglect was the name of the game and most of us grew up, moved out, got jobs and survived on our own quite well.

It seems to me that nobody trusts their kids anymore. Nobody lets them make any decisions. Nobody lets them be bored.

Then they complain that young adults are irresponsible and don't know how to take care of themselves without ever thinking that they've been trained to be incompetent.

Crazy.
We had a similar juvenile experience, boomer.
We moved from NY to Arizona when I was 8.
We acquired some family businesses (furniture stores)
to whose administration my parents attended on a daily basis.
Accordingly, I was on my own after school and on Saturdays
and during summer vacations of June, July n August.

I rather enjoyed the freedom, with plenty of food and money.
In my mind, I considered myself to be an adult.
I was always sort of a libertarian kind of guy.

During recent years, I 've seen children being escorted,
in large numbers in New York, by their parents to school in the morning.
That was unheard of, in my youth, neither in NY nor in Arizona.
We were all left to get to school by our own devices.

Do u escort Mo to school each day ?





David
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 04:32 pm
@dyslexia,
I'll consider my daughter an adult once she is 18 years old. She'll probably be
still at home but has complete responsibility for her actions by then, including her financial welfare. Naturally she'll receive continued financial support throughout her college years, but she will need to budget with the money that's given to her. She always will have my emotional support, no matter how old she is, that's for sure!
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 07:00 pm
@sozobe,
NYT Mag, not New Yorker:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/22/magazine/22Adulthood-t.html

Longish excerpt:

Quote:
We’re in the thick of what one sociologist calls “the changing timetable for adulthood.” Sociologists traditionally define the “transition to adulthood” as marked by five milestones: completing school, leaving home, becoming financially independent, marrying and having a child. In 1960, 77 percent of women and 65 percent of men had, by the time they reached 30, passed all five milestones. Among 30-year-olds in 2000, according to data from the United States Census Bureau, fewer than half of the women and one-third of the men had done so. A Canadian study reported that a typical 30-year-old in 2001 had completed the same number of milestones as a 25-year-old in the early ’70s.

[....]

Even if some traditional milestones are never reached, one thing is clear: Getting to what we would generally call adulthood is happening later than ever. But why? That’s the subject of lively debate among policy makers and academics. To some, what we’re seeing is a transient epiphenomenon, the byproduct of cultural and economic forces. To others, the longer road to adulthood signifies something deep, durable and maybe better-suited to our neurological hard-wiring. What we’re seeing, they insist, is the dawning of a new life stage — a stage that all of us need to adjust to.

JEFFREY JENSEN ARNETT, a psychology professor at Clark University in Worcester, Mass., is leading the movement to view the 20s as a distinct life stage, which he calls “emerging adulthood.” He says what is happening now is analogous to what happened a century ago, when social and economic changes helped create adolescence — a stage we take for granted but one that had to be recognized by psychologists, accepted by society and accommodated by institutions that served the young. Similar changes at the turn of the 21st century have laid the groundwork for another new stage, Arnett says, between the age of 18 and the late 20s. Among the cultural changes he points to that have led to “emerging adulthood” are the need for more education to survive in an information-based economy; fewer entry-level jobs even after all that schooling; young people feeling less rush to marry because of the general acceptance of premarital sex, cohabitation and birth control; and young women feeling less rush to have babies given their wide range of career options and their access to assisted reproductive technology if they delay pregnancy beyond their most fertile years.

Just as adolescence has its particular psychological profile, Arnett says, so does emerging adulthood: identity exploration, instability, self-focus, feeling in-between and a rather poetic characteristic he calls “a sense of possibilities.” A few of these, especially identity exploration, are part of adolescence too, but they take on new depth and urgency in the 20s. The stakes are higher when people are approaching the age when options tend to close off and lifelong commitments must be made. Arnett calls it “the age 30 deadline.”


(Emphasis mine.)
boomerang
 
  2  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 07:00 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
We live only a block from school so Mo's been walking himself to and from school since the second grade. It's one of the things he's most proud of -- being the first to get to do it. Most of the kids, even the ones on our block his age or older are still walked to school.

Some parents have asked me how "I got him to do it" wishing their own kids would walk on their own. They say he's "independent" and "self-reliant" but really it's because he isn't fearful. I don't want him to be afraid of the world.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 07:01 pm
@sozobe,
Thanks, I'll try to read that before the 28th. (grrrrrrr on the 28th)
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 07:04 pm
@ossobuco,
I think you get 20 articles free after that (per month? not sure).

Anyway forgot to comment, that I think it's good that several of those milestones are being pushed back. (Later marriage, later babies.)
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 07:07 pm
@sozobe,
(I often read twenty articles a day or at least ten. This is a lifeline chop. Really a class-action. I understand them, am not entirely hostile, but they don't understand the value of free access.)
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Mar, 2011 07:10 pm
@ossobuco,
Yeah, it's dumb.

I'm a subscriber so if there's something you want to see I could probably email it to you, or something.

Since I like the NYT in general I'm mostly worried for them at this point, how badly it'll backfire and what the repercussions will be.

Anyway, back to parenting....
 

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