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TOP SHOT

 
 
Reply Wed 23 Mar, 2011 03:25 am

Its an interesting show, with use of a wide variety of weapons.
Last nite, I saw them compete in shooting a Ruger .357 magnum
double action in each hand, simultaneously. I 've never tried that.
It 'd be a lot easier, more comfortable n more accurate to do it single action.

I 've also, never tried shooting at bottles, double action,
with a magnum revolver, while hanging upside down, like a bat,
which thay did. U can see the muzzle of the revolver deflecting DOWNward
with each shot, as thay hang upside down.

Gravity pulls the muzzles down toward their heads.

Thay show u the results in slow motion fotografy.

Has anyone seen this on the History Channel ?





David
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boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Mar, 2011 08:10 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Mo loves that show. He also likes that show about the family that make/modify guns. Mr. B watches them with him but I've only heard them since I'm usually reading or doing something else when they're on.

Mo has started doing modifications on his Nerf guns.

I'm uncertain why he is so interested in guns but I'm thinking the boy could have a bright future in the honorable trade of gun smithing.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Mar, 2011 10:53 am
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:
Mo loves that show. He also likes that show about the family that make/modify guns.
Yeah, the one in Louisiana: Red Jacket.
I love that one. Its fun. Sons of Guns.
Its a good family show; wholesome. Father & daughter adore one another.
I love the fully automatic weapons. Thay r tons of fun.




boomerang wrote:
Mr. B watches them with him but I've only heard them
since I'm usually reading or doing something else when they're on.

Mo has started doing modifications on his Nerf guns.
What r Nerf guns ?
For shooting Nerfs ?




boomerang wrote:
I'm uncertain why he is so interested in guns
Thay can be very attractive.
Like coins, a lot of people in America have gun collections.
Thay can use the guns to guard the coins




boomerang wrote:
but I'm thinking the boy could have a bright future
in the honorable trade of gun smithing.
Yes, and a FUN future too.
If I had more energy, I might enjoy that.
I can remember my 3rd Birthday party, and time leading up to it.

I remember, at age 3 in NY,
that my eyes LOCKED on the revolvers
on NYC police officers and bank guards.
I remember lying in bed (more than 1ce) thinking about those guns.
In my mind, I imagined misappropriating not only the gun,
but the whole rig (leather gunbelt with bandolier n holster).





David
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Mar, 2011 03:41 pm

In one respect, the show is deceptive to its audience, to wit:
altho it claims to be concerned with ascertaining the identity
of the TOP SHOT from among its applicants,
it makes the guys run foot races
and race among themselves qua loading magazines.

Foot speed has nothing to do accuracy of shooting.

It seems to me that the most accurate shot
was rejected for being slower in a foot race. That is cheating the audience.





David
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Mar, 2011 04:53 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Sons of Guns is the other show they watch. They aren't quite as "into" that one though.

I think some of the stuff on Top Shot isn't necessary but I guess they do that to make the show more interesting.

A Nerf gun is a gun that shoots foam darts. They're a very popular toy even in the age where you aren't supposed to let your kid play with toy guns. They make a variety of different models and with a little finessing you can modify them.

I used to carry my cap guns to school (in cowboy holsters) in the early grades. Mo loved his 2nd grade teacher because she told the story of carrying her real guns to school when she was little.

I confess that my eyes glaze over when Mo talks about guns. It frustrates him because I was totally willing to talk sharks and snakes and whatever else caught his fancy but I just don't know anything about guns. He seems to know what he's talking about, though. I'll be interested to find out if you get a chance to meet him when you're in Portland this summer.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Mar, 2011 07:54 pm
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:
Sons of Guns is the other show they watch.
They aren't quite as "into" that one though.
Its fun to see the gunsmithing and its (functional) results.



boomerang wrote:
I think some of the stuff on Top Shot isn't necessary
but I guess they do that to make the show more interesting.
Yeah. Ratings rule supreme.





boomerang wrote:
A Nerf gun is a gun that shoots foam darts.
When I was 8, before I acquired my first firearm,
I took a springloaded gun that was designed to shoot plastic darts
with rubber suction cups on their ends. I adapted it for personal defense.
I substituted my own ammunition:
3 inch nails, or 1 inch tacks.
I carried that for personal security, until I got a .38 revolver.





boomerang wrote:
They're a very popular toy even in the age
where you aren't supposed to let your kid play with toy guns.
I was not aware that such an age existed.
Who defined that age ?





boomerang wrote:
They make a variety of different models and with a little finessing
you can modify them.
"Necessity is the mother of invention." Ingenuity is the father.



boomerang wrote:
I used to carry my cap guns to school (in cowboy holsters) in the early grades.
Mo loved his 2nd grade teacher because she told the story
of carrying her real guns to school when she was little.
In 1903, the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice
was created by Congress to encourage American youth to be good marksmen.
It promoted the establishment of rifle teams in schools across America.
It sold me a mint condition .30 caliber M-1 Carbine for $20 about 50 years ago.
In English class, we had public speaking.
For that purpose, the teacher had the students do a "show and tell."
I brought in and field stripped an M-1 Carbine and got a good grade.








boomerang wrote:
I confess that my eyes glaze over when Mo talks about guns.
It frustrates him because I was totally willing to talk sharks and snakes
and whatever else caught his fancy but I just don't know anything about guns.
Its not too late; guns r mechanically simple machines; ez to understand.
U can learn a lot in just a few minutes, especially with pictures in books.





boomerang wrote:
He seems to know what he's talking about, though.
I'll be interested to find out if you get a chance to meet him
when you're in Portland this summer.
That sounds like fun; I 'd love to meet Mo.
I can bring u both an illustrated book of small arms,
but I don 't know if that 'd be too simple or elementary.
Possibly, Mo might already know its basic concepts,
e.g., the structural differences between revolvers and automatics
or how small arms ammuntion detonates.
His level of sophistication might be a little or a lot.

Which firearms has he fired so far ?
What have u fired so far?
Rifles?
Shotguns?
Revolvers?
Automatics ?
Other? I remember that your brother is a General Officer
in the Army. Maybe he has taught u of firearms?

When I moved to Arizona, my nabor was a captain
in the National Guard. He drove his son and the kids
in the naborhood to gunnery ranges, where we worked out
with pistols, revolvers, rifles and submachineguns; tons of fun, reallly!





David
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Mar, 2011 09:12 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
I've shot one gun (a handgun) one time. That was plenty for me. I hope to never shoot one again.

Mo has never shot a gun. I have considered taking him for training simply because I think he would enjoy it and that he'd be good at it. I like him to pursue things he's interested in.

I think kids are safer when they know and understand things as opposed to just forbidden things. I know kids who hunt who are competent with guns and they seem to be more understanding of what guns can actually do.

Mr. B used to hunt but doesn't any more. We have a gun that we take camping but otherwise it is locked in a safe.

My brother is an expert marksman but he is by no means gun crazy. He doesn't like guns and doesn't allow them in his house.

I'm not opposed to guns but I don't really like them. I think they can be extremely dangerous in inexperienced hands. Kids don't really understand long term ramifications of actions and I don't want to put Mo in the position of being responsible for something deadly.

Mo seems to be well versed in guns. When he talks to people who know about guns they are always surprised at how much he understands about them. He reads a lot about guns and how they work and how they're put together.

If you give me some basic questions to ask him I'll type in his answers because I'd like to know if what he knows is correct. That might be an interesting experiment.

OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Mar, 2011 11:43 pm
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:
I've shot one gun (a handgun) one time. That was plenty for me.
I hope to never shoot one again.
Maybe it was overpowered, for someone who was just learning.
I imagine that u disliked the recoil.
In my opinion, its best to start with a little .22 caliber firearm.
I have a .22 caliber revolver with a 9 shot cylinder.
It has almost no discernable recoil, and little sound.





boomerang wrote:
Mo has never shot a gun. I have considered taking him for training
simply because I think he would enjoy it and that he'd be good at it.
I like him to pursue things he's interested in.
Yes; people tend to ENJOY doing things that thay do well.
In my opinion, rather than have him yearning for the "forbidden fruit"
its better to have him safely trained under competent supervision.





boomerang wrote:
I think kids are safer when they know and understand things as opposed to just forbidden things.
Thomas Jefferson believed that gunnery practice builds character.
There survives a letter from Jefferson to his 12 year old nephew
wherein he advises him always to take his gun with him
whenever he goes out for a walk. Jefferson recommended gunnery
practice over ballgames, which he deemed too dangerous.





boomerang wrote:
I know kids who hunt who are competent with guns and they seem to
be more understanding of what guns can actually do.
As Francis Bacon put it: "knowledge is power."







boomerang wrote:
Mr. B used to hunt but doesn't any more. We have a gun that we take camping but otherwise it is locked in a safe.

My brother is an expert marksman but he is by no means gun crazy. He doesn't like guns and doesn't allow them in his house.

I'm not opposed to guns but I don't really like them. I think they can be extremely dangerous in inexperienced hands.
Can we compare it to going swimming,
when one does not yet know how to do it correctly ?





boomerang wrote:
Kids don't really understand long term ramifications of actions and I don't want to put Mo in the position of being responsible for something deadly.

Mo seems to be well versed in guns. When he talks to people who know about guns they are always surprised at how much he understands about them. He reads a lot about guns and how they work and how they're put together.
Therein are the Keys to the Kingdom.
It is ez to become well-versed in gun knowledge by carefully reading
gun magazines (the paper kind, not the metal kind into which u stuff the ammunition).

Incidentally, in reference to the education-based threads:
if u have discovered that Mo LIKES to read about guns,
then it seems to me that u have a good educational opportunity
to have him practice his reading; I have in mind gun-based magazines
with a lot of attractive pictures in color and explanatory text;
stories about their use, and safety-minded, defensive strategy.
I 'd Google those magazines.
I subscribe to some of them, e.g. Guns and Ammo, Handguns Magazine, etc.




boomerang wrote:
If you give me some basic questions to ask him I'll type in his answers
because I'd like to know if what he knows is correct. That might be an interesting experiment.
Well, the whole thing is extremely simple, because that is how guns are.
I fear that he might think that I 'm impugning his intelligence,
because the questions are so simple and I don 't want him
to think that I 'm impolite.

Off hand, the only questions that I can think of at the moment
are whether he knows the difference between a revolver
and a semi-automatic pistol, whether he knows the differences
between single action revolvers and double action revolvers?

Does he know that caliber is measured in 1/100ths of an inch,
i.e., that a .22 caliber bore in a gunbarrel is 22% of an inch in diameter?
a .38 caliber bullet is 38% of an inch in diameter?
a .50 caliber gunbarrel is half an inch across in diameter?

Does he know that a gun 's firing pin (in its hammer)
is supposed to hit the back of the brass shell of a cartridge,
thereby denting the silver colored primer of the shell,
causing a little explosion that causes a BIGGER explosion
by detonating the gun powder, which shoves out the bullet
thru the barrel, moving toward the target ?

Does he know what OVERPENETRATION means?
Does he know what an an automatic weapon is?
(It means that the ammunition will be discharged automatically,
until the gun runs out of ammuntion, as long as u hold back the trigger,
as in a machinegun or a fully automatic rifle)
Does he know what a submachinegun is?
(It is the same as a fully automatic rifle, but it fires PISTOL ammunition,
so it has less recoil because of less gunpowder in the brass shell.)
Does he know what an a semi-automatic weapon is?
(It means that a gun fires one shot at a time, with each pull of the trigger.)

I 'm not at all sure that I expressed those questions artfully enuf
to be sufficiently comprehensible
(If not, lemme know and I 'll try to express them better.)

In reading these questions, I fear that I might have made
made very, very simple ideas appear to be more complex than thay really are.
If that 's a problem, lemme know and I'll try to refine the ideas
with a better vu toward simplicity.





David
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Mar, 2011 04:49 am
@OmSigDAVID,
I think I made those questions seem too complex.
I shoud have made them simpler.

I can elucidate.

Maybe these pictures will make it easier to explain:
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGIC_enUS221US221&q=image+of+a+pistol+cartridge





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Mar, 2011 03:58 am

Something on the show makes no sense.

The team mates vote to rid their teams
of the least successful members, who get them into
the Elimination Rounds. Thay show some anger
(dare I say scorn??) for inaccurate contestants
on their respective teams.

From the perspective of their respective best interests,
it is to their advantage for better, stronger competitors to DEPART
because if thay remain, then thay can and will reduce the
chances of each other voter to WIN the $100,000.

(Tonya Harding & friends understood that.)

Accordingly, it is to the advantage of each team member
of a losing team to vote to send the most accurate competitors
into the Elimination Round, in hopes of expediting their exodos,
thereby IMPROVING the voter's own chance of winning the cash.

As another, earlier TV series used to put it: "In the end, THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE."

Right ??





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Mar, 2011 10:00 am

Its really kinda foolish
that one of the criteria of being the "Top Shot"
is how fast he can manually load a magazine.

That is unrelated to accuracy.





David
roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Mar, 2011 12:59 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Depends on your concept. If you think of a gun as a long range paper punch, you are exactly right. If you consider it a weapon, being able to control the weapon while breathless from running, and reloading quickly might be the more realistic test.

Techniques and hardware are quite different between target and combat shooting.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Mar, 2011 03:34 pm
@roger,
roger wrote:
Depends on your concept. If you think of a gun as a long range paper punch, you are exactly right.
If you consider it a weapon, being able to control the weapon while breathless from running,
and reloading quickly might be the more realistic test.
Yes, but my impression is that the name of the show implies accurate sniping.
In theory, someone like me (I'm no foot racer; I 'm lucky just to walk short distances)
coud be more accurate in shot placement, i.e., a better sniper,
than the other competitors.

I thawt it was a travesty last season when thay sent home
a youthful engineering student who had been very acccurate,
because he lost a footrace. In my opinion, the management
was CHEATING, by doing so, in that he was rejected for
a reason that had nothing to do with accuracy,
such that the actual winner of the cash prize
was NOT the top shot,
because the loser was a better shot.




roger wrote:
Techniques and hardware are quite different between target and combat shooting.
I 'd never deny that, except for snipers.

Do consider sniping to be included within "combat shooting" ??

I do.





David
roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Mar, 2011 04:46 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

Do consider sniping to be included within "combat shooting" ??

I do.


Me too. Now, I never heard of sniping with a hand gun, let alone a Ruger .357 being fired double action, one in each hand, but that is probably a reflection of my own lack of experience.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Mar, 2011 11:19 pm
@roger,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Do consider sniping to be included within "combat shooting" ??

I do.
roger wrote:
Me too. Now, I never heard of sniping with a hand gun, let alone a Ruger .357
being fired double action, one in each hand, but that is probably a reflection of my own lack of experience.
I 'm sure a handgun woud not be a sniper's first choice of equipment.
Firing magnum revolvers DOUBLE ACTION is a humorous joke.
One poor fellow coud not do it with his left hand.
A sniper 'd want a well-braced rifle, with a good telescopic sight.

That was a fun idea, goofy, but fun.
I have remarked to friends about how ridiculous it is
when cinematic actors are fotografed leaping up
hi in the air firing 2 handguns at once,
not sighting either of them on the target.





David
roger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2011 04:49 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Actually, I used to do most of my shooting without reference to sights. On the other hand, I was more interested in hitting a 12 oz can at 20 feet than a 10X at 50. It's not the stuff of target ranges, but you might be surprised how well it works when you get onto it.

Again, it's a matter of context. I always thought that 20 feet was about the max for a plausible plea of self defense, and why train with sights when you are most likely to have to shoot in low light?
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2011 05:29 am
@roger,
roger wrote:
Actually, I used to do most of my shooting without reference to sights. On the other hand, I was more interested in hitting a 12 oz can at 20 feet than a 10X at 50. It's not the stuff of target ranges, but you might be surprised how well it works when you get onto it.
Yeah; practice makes perfect.




roger wrote:
Again, it's a matter of context. I always thought that 20 feet
was about the max for a plausible plea of self defense,
Agreed. Historically, the average defensive engagement
has been not much beyond arm 's reach.



roger wrote:
and why train with sights when you are most likely to have to shoot in low light?
OK, if its at point blank range.

What is your weapon of choice ?

Mine is a .44 Taurus Model 445, with hollowpointed slugs for stopping power.

http://www.proguns.com/images/used-guns/usedguns247-904/278taurus445.jpg





David
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2011 05:41 am

Its in stainless steel mirror, for the in terrorem effect at nite.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2011 06:35 am
@OmSigDAVID,
If I could only have one, it would either be the 1911 Govt Model in .45 ACP or the S&W J Frame in .38 with 3" 'square bbl. I actually prefer shooting the Walther PPK in .380. They just happen to be the most charming guns I've ever owned.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2011 05:35 am
@roger,
roger wrote:
If I could only have one, it would either be the 1911 Govt Model in .45 ACP
Kinda bulky; not for concealment,
but .45ACP WILL put a bad guy down.
Thay sure have a dedicated following.



roger wrote:
or the S&W J Frame in .38 with 3" 'square bbl.
I actually prefer shooting the Walther PPK in .380.
They just happen to be the most charming guns I've ever owned.
What about stopping power ?
0 Replies
 
 

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