35
   

military action against Libya

 
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 May, 2011 06:52 pm
@JTT,
Just prove I am a war criminal and if I wasnt a soldier than you should admit to lying .
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 May, 2011 06:56 pm
@Ionus,
Quote:
Just prove I am a war criminal and if I wasnt a soldier than[sic] you should admit to lying .


Please restate this in English.
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Mon 2 May, 2011 07:03 pm
@JTT,
WOW ! Very clever attempt at stupidity...and I believe you are genuine given your inability to write English .

Prove I am a war criminal .

If I wasnt a soldier then you should admit to lying .

Now put and in the middle.....come on now...you can do it....keep trying....
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  0  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 06:01 am
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:

Quote:
Just one in a long line of war criminals
When will you be proving these people are war criminals ? I am still waiting for you to prove I am a war criminal...is there one under your bed ? I know there is one in it...
Just as with the Nazis; the proof only needed to be shown, and it was pretty obvious: Here is the war, begun and prosecuted without just cause, and here are the crimes resulting from the original crime... Consider, that what it took to hang Nazis had to be rather narrow to avoid the tu quo que defense which they would not allow... For the most part, Goring may have hung for a single signiture on an order to shoot allied airmen... Submariners abandoned sailors of sunken ships at sea, and there a similar order on the American side save the German Admiral... Only one instance of an exposfacto law resuling in Genocide was found... They were careful, and often correct; but it is hard to get around illegal wars with illegal orders resulting in illegal acts... If we think Nato, which is us, or the U.N. which is our puppet can conceal from anyone the crimes we commit to have our oil and our power, then we are simply wrong... We make the U.N. useless for peace when we use it for war... We make the U.N. useless for justice when we use it for injustice...
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 06:02 am
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Quote:
Prove I am a war criminal


I don't even think you were a soldier.
If he was a soldier he was lucky, or sucked his way to the rear; because he isn't too bright...
Fido
 
  0  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 06:11 am
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Quote:
Just prove I am a war criminal and if I wasnt a soldier than[sic] you should admit to lying .


Please restate this in English.
Ask if he ever killed anyone, or aided in the killing of anyone in an undeclared war on another country that was notorious for attacks upon civilians, whole sale round ups and relocations of people involving the confiscation and destruction of much of their property, and the torture and execution of anyone who dared to object...

I honor courage even if in an illegal cause, but there are some situations people should attack even if it means the destruction of their lives and the lives of their countrymen.. The best and most heroic acts in that place was the fragging of officers whether of necessity or sport... There is no excuse for our having been in Vietnam, and there was no excuse for attacking Iraq... There is no excuse to stay in Afghanistan, and there was no excuse to stay after the first fight... We hsve wasted our resources at the same time that we have added to our enemies...
mysteryman
 
  4  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 06:57 am
@Fido,
Quote:
The best and most heroic acts in that place was the fragging of officers whether of necessity or sport


So making a game out of killing someone is "heroic" in your book?

Its apparent that you have never served in any type of combat role.
Killing anyone is never a game, and it takes a very sick person to think it is, or that its heroic.

It is an uncivilized act, sometimes required in an uncivilized situation.
I dont know a single soldier personally that likes to kill, its something we all wish we never had to do.
Yes, there are some sick individuals that seem to enjoy killing, but they are rare.

Lets be realistic.
ANY time the military is used, its a failure.
Its a failure of diplomacy, and a failure of govts to compromise.
However, there are times when the use of force is not only needed, it is the only option.

Every soldier would rather be anywhere else than on a battlefield.
That is a very scary place to be, for everyone involved.
And except for some very rare, twisted, sick individuals, no soldier enjoys killing.

So for you to think its a game, or heroic in any way tells me that you have been watching to many movies and have never experienced it yourself.
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 07:28 am
@Fido,
Quote:
Here is the war, begun and prosecuted without just cause
That is not what the Nazis were charged with...dont make **** up....
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 07:30 am
@Fido,
Quote:
If he was a soldier he was lucky, or sucked his way to the rear; because he isn't too bright...
Very Happy Ha ! It works the other way, dickless....the intelligent ones tend to get fix-it jobs in the rear...the ones left over get grunts . Yet another example of your enthusiasm outstripping your ability by a mile .
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 07:31 am
@Fido,
Quote:
The best and most heroic acts in that place was the fragging of officers whether of necessity or sport...
Are you and JoinTalibanTerrorism in the same mental institution ?
Fido
 
  0  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 07:40 am
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

Quote:
The best and most heroic acts in that place was the fragging of officers whether of necessity or sport


So making a game out of killing someone is "heroic" in your book?

Its apparent that you have never served in any type of combat role.
Killing anyone is never a game, and it takes a very sick person to think it is, or that its heroic.

It is an uncivilized act, sometimes required in an uncivilized situation.
I dont know a single soldier personally that likes to kill, its something we all wish we never had to do.
Yes, there are some sick individuals that seem to enjoy killing, but they are rare.

Lets be realistic.
ANY time the military is used, its a failure.
Its a failure of diplomacy, and a failure of govts to compromise.
However, there are times when the use of force is not only needed, it is the only option.

Every soldier would rather be anywhere else than on a battlefield.
That is a very scary place to be, for everyone involved.
And except for some very rare, twisted, sick individuals, no soldier enjoys killing.

So for you to think its a game, or heroic in any way tells me that you have been watching to many movies and have never experienced it yourself.
If they had sent me I would not have come back alive... I would have turned my guns on idiot officers who got men killed for no good reason, and in my life I met a couple who did the deed, or threw money in the hat to see it done...

Vietnam was a war crime. Iraq was a war crime... Even Afghanistan is a war crime... Libya is a war crime... We do not have to be there, and primarily, the war is not one of defense... Afghanistan might be considered justified if we had not tried to install a puppet who will not last longer than we do, and if we had left when we drove the Enemy and his support out... We cannot fight such a war but at great cost, and the point of the war is long lost... Never let your enemy choose the battlefield... Never try to occupy a place just to occupy it...We are good at attacking and invading, so we should do just that; but to stay is folly...

Seriously: You admit it is uncivilized; and how far is that from immoral... You admit it is a failure, and this I agree, but if the failure is on our part, and we go along with it then is it not murder??? All violence is an attempt to communicate, a form of communication, and a real failure to communicate... Sometimes people really do not want to hear what you have to say, and you don't want to hear what they have to say... Does that make violence justified??? Every single school boy in my generation realized that we were to Vietnam what Britain was once to us, a country in defense of Empire... We had come full circle, and the meaning of this is that the democracy we had founded and given to the world as a means of self defense was dead... Chilren now, in order to learn about their government must learn about capitalism because the two have become the same... The government does not exist for our defense, but for the defense of American Interests, which is capital abroad... If it becomes necessary for democracy to die anywhere so that capital can live anywhere, then the life of democracy is done...
Fido
 
  0  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 07:42 am
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:

Quote:
The best and most heroic acts in that place was the fragging of officers whether of necessity or sport...
Are you and JoinTalibanTerrorism in the same mental institution ?
In an insane society it is the sane who seem insane...
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 10:01 am
@Fido,
Fido, During the Vietnam war, I talked to several vets who came back from Nam, and they told me horror stories of what "they" did in that country. Yea, "we" were criminals who killed without conscience or necessity, and the brutality against innocent Vietnamese were atrocious and murderous.

However, that's only one of the many reasons why I distrust our government. Our use of agent orange and the damage it caused the Vietnamese people are still evident in that country today.

JTT
 
  0  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 10:35 am
@mysteryman,
Quote:
Yes, there are some sick individuals that seem to enjoy killing, but they are rare.


The old "it's the actions of a rogue soldier/group of soldiers" meme. You really are one brainwashed American, MM.

Every major division that served in Vietnam was represented.

Yeah, sure, it's only the odd rogue.

Quote:

The War Behind Me - Vietnam Veterans Confront the Truth about US War Crimes

Inside the Army's Secret Archive of Investigations



The army launched a second important inquiry in the wake of Hersh’s exposé. [on My Lai] But this one would receive no public notice. The chief of staff quietly assembled a team of officers to collect information on other war-crime allegations that had been reported internally or elsewhere. The men culled investigation files, surveillance reports, press accounts, court-martial records, and congressional correspondence. Each month they summarized what they’d found and sent a memo up the chain of command.

They operated in secret for five years. During that time, they amassed nine thousand pages of evidence implicating U.S. troops in a wide range of atrocities.[3] In contrast to the My Lai investigation, their inquiry led to no major actions or public accounting. In fact, the Pentagon kept the entire collection under wraps, even after the war ended.

In 1990, Kali Tal, founder of Viet Nam Generation, a small journal of contemporary history and literature on the 1960s, was tipped to the papers’ existence. She requested a declassification and Freedom of Information Act review. After a year had passed, the National Archives and Records Administration notified her that the documents were available for inspection.[4] She found the records deeply disturbing and posted a short notice in her journal to alert others. She did not pursue the matter further, and the boxes returned to the storeroom shelves.

A decade later, Cliff Snyder, a Vietnam specialist on the Archives staff, brought the cartons to the attention of Nicholas Turse, a visiting military historian.[5] While researching them for his dissertation, he came across a 1968 massacre and other cases he believed to be newsworthy. In 2005, he contacted the Los Angeles Times about them. I was the newspaper’s Washington investigative editor at the time, so his e-mail was relayed to me. We joined forces soon afterward to investigate the long-buried reports.[6]

When I proposed the project to John Carroll, then the Los Angeles Times’ top editor, his first question was whether a few rogue units committed most of the crimes. That had been his impression as a young Vietnam War correspondent, and a commonly held view. The most notorious was the Americal Division, responsible for My Lai and a lengthy list of less-known atrocities. The Tiger Force, an elite army platoon, became a late addition to the club with the Toledo Blade’s Pulitzer Prize–winning series in 2003 that documented a seven-month killing spree in which scores perished.[7]

The archive collection contained hundreds of sworn statements from soldiers and veterans who committed or witnessed rapes, torture, murders, massacres, and other illegal acts. There were letters from soldiers, statistical reports, and case summaries.[8] When we hand-entered the data into a spreadsheet, it became clear the problem was much bigger than a few bad men: Every major division that served in Vietnam was represented. We counted more than 300 allegations in cases that were substantiated by the army’s own investigations. Some had never been revealed; others had been publicly disputed while the army remained silent about its findings. Five hundred allegations couldn’t be proven or weren’t fully investigated.[9] According to officers who helped compile the records, those numbers represented only a small fraction of the war crimes committed in Vietnam.





Quote:



American Soldiers in the Philippines Write Home about the War

During the U.S. war in the Philippines between 1899 and 1904 (which grew out of the Spanish-American War that had erupted in 1898), ordinary American soldiers shared the nationalist zeal of their commanders and pursued the Filipino “enemy” with brutality and sometimes outright lawlessness. Racism, which flourished in the United States in this period, led American soldiers to repeatedly assert their desire “to get at the niggers.”

An anti-imperialist movement, which rejected annexation by the United States of former Spanish colonies like Puerto Rico and the Philippines, attempted to build opposition at home to the increasingly brutal war.

Although few soldiers joined the anti-imperialist cause, their statements did sometimes provide ammunition for the opponents of annexation and war. In 1899, the Anti-Imperialist League published a pamphlet of Soldiers Letters, with the provocative subtitle: “Being Materials for a History of a War of Criminal Aggression.”

Historian Jim Zwick notes that the publication “was immediately controversial. Supporters of the war discounted the accounts of atrocities as the boasting of soldiers wanting to impress their friends and families at home or, because the identities of some of the writers were withheld from publication, as outright fabrications.” But the brutal portrayal of the war that is found in these letters (excerpts from twenty-seven of them are included here) is supported in other accounts.


Private Fred B. Hinchman, Company A. United States Engineers, writes from Manila, February 22d:

At 1:30 o’clock the general gave me a memorandum with regard to sending out a Tennessee battalion to the line. He tersely put it that “they were looking for a fight.” At the Puente Colgante [suspension bridge] I met one of our company, who told me that the Fourteenth and Washingtons were driving all before them, and taking no prisoners. This is now our rule of procedure for cause. After delivering my message I had not walked a block when I heard shots down the street. Hurrying forward, I found a group of our men taking pot-shots across the river, into a bamboo thicket, at about 1,200 yards. I longed to join them, but had my reply to take back, and that, of course, was the first thing to attend to I reached the office at 3 P.M., just in time to see a platoon of the Washingtons, with about fifty prisoners, who had been taken before they learned how not to take them.

Arthur H. Vickers, Sergeant in the First Nebraska Regiment:

I am not afraid, and am always ready to do my duty, but I would like some one to tell me what we are fighting for.

Guy Williams, of the Iowa Regiment:

The soldiers made short work of the whole thing. They looted every house, and found almost everything, from a pair of wooden shoes up to a piano, and they carried everything off or destroyed it. Talk of the natives plundering the towns: I don’t think they are in it with the Fiftieth Iowa.

General Reeve, lately Colonel of the Thirteenth Minnesota Regiment:

I deprecate this war, this slaughter of our own boys and of the Filipinos, because it seems to me that we are doing something that is contrary to our principles in the past. Certainly we are doing something that we should have shrunk from not so very long ago.

Sergeant Elliott, of Company G, Kansas Regiment:

Most of the general officers think it will take years, and a large force of soldiers, to thoroughly subjugate the natives. And the unpleasant feature of this is that unless the conditions change radically there will be few soldiers who will care to stay there. There’s no use trying to conceal the fact that many of the men over there now, especially the volunteers, are homesick, and tired of fighting way off there, with nothing in particular to gain. There is not one man in the whole army now in the Philippines who would not willingly give up his life for the flag if it was necessary, but it isn’t pleasant to think about dying at the hands of a foe little better than a savage, and so far away from home. And the thought of its not ending for several years is not an especially pleasant one, either.

Charles Bremer, of Minneapolis, Kansas, describing the fight at Caloocan:

Company I had taken a few prisoners, and stopped. The colonel ordered them up in to line time after time, and finally sent Captain Bishop back to start them. There occurred the hardest sight I ever saw. They had four prisoners, and didn’t know what to do with them. They asked Captain Bishop what to do, and he said: “You know the orders,” and four natives fell dead.

Sylvester Walker, of the Twenty-third Regulars, February 20:

There has not been a night for the last ten days we have not had fighting. Our force is too weak, and we cannot spare any more men, and will have to wait for more troops. Then we will have hard fighting, for there are so many that, no matter how many we kill or capture, it doesn’t seem to lessen their number.

Martin P. Olson, of the Fourteenth Regulars:

We can lick them, but it will take us a long time, because there are about 150,000 of the dagos back in the hills, and as soon as one of them gets killed or wounded there is a man to take his place at once; and we have but a few men in the first place, but we are expecting about 8,000 more soldiers every day, and I hope they will soon get here, or we will all be tired out and sick. . . . This is an awful bad climate and there have been from two to four funerals every day. The boys have chronic diarrhea and dysentery, and it just knocks the poor boys out. You mustn’t feel uneasy about me, because I don’t think there is a Spanish bullet made to kill me; it is disease that I am most afraid of.

Fred D. Sweet, of the Utah Light Battery:

The scene reminded me of the shooting of jack-rabbits in Utah, only the rabbits sometimes got away, but the insurgents did not.

Capt. Albert Otis, describes his exploits at Santa Ana:

I have six horses and three carriages in my yard, and enough small plunder for a family of six. The house I had at Santa Ana had five pianos. I couldn’t take them, so I put a big grand piano out of a second-story window. You can guess its finish. Everything is pretty quiet about here now. I expect we will not be kept here very long now. Give my love to all.

Ellis G. Davis, Company A, 20th Kansas:

They will never surrender until their whole race is exterminated. They are fighting for a good cause, and the Americans should be the last of all nations to transgress upon such rights. Their independence is dearer to them than life, as ours was in years gone by, and is today. They should have their independence, and would have had it if those who make the laws in America had not been so slow in deciding the Philippine question Of course, we have to fight now to protect the honor of our country but there is not a man who enlisted to fight these people, and should the United States annex these islands, none but the most bloodthirsty will claim himself a hero. This is not a lack of patriotism, but my honest belief.

J. E. Fetterly, a Nebraska soldier:

Some think the insurgents are disheartened, but I think they will make a desperate struggle for what they consider their rights. I do not approve of the course our government is pursuing with these people. If all men are created equal, they have some rights which ought to be respected.

Arthur Minkler, of the Kansas Regiment says:

We advanced four miles and we fought every inch of the way; . . . saw twenty-five dead insurgents in one place and twenty-seven in another, besides a whole lot of them scattered along that I did not count. . . . It was like hunting rabbits; an insurgent would jump out of a hole or the brush and run; he would not get very far. . . . I suppose you are not interested in the way we do the job. We do not take prisoners. At least the Twentieth Kansas do not.

Burr Ellis, of Frazier Valley, California:

They did not commence fighting over here (Cavite) for several days after the war commenced. Dewey gave them till nine o’clock one day to surrender, and that night they all left but a few out to their trenches, and those that they left burned up the town, and when the town commenced burning the troops were ordered in as far as possible and said, Kill all we could find. I ran off from the hospital and went ahead with the scouts. And bet, I did not cross the ocean for the fun there was in it, so the first one I found, he was in a house, down on his knees fanning a fire, trying to burn the house, and I pulled my old Long Tom to my shoulder and left him to burn with the fire, which he did. I got his knife, and another jumped out of the window and ran, and I brought him to the ground like a jack-rabbit. I killed seven that I know of, and one more I am almost sure of: I shot ten shots at him running and knocked him down, and that evening the boys out in front of our trenches now found one with his arm shot off at shoulder and dead as h___ ; I had lots of fun that morning. There were five jumped out of the brush and cut one of the Iowa band boys, and we killed every one of them, and I was sent back to quarters in the hurry. Came very near getting a court-martial, but the colonel said he had heard that I had done excellent work and he laughed and said: “There’s good stuff in that man,” and told me not to leave any more without orders. Well, John, there will always be trouble here with the natives unless they annihilate all of them as fast as they come to them.

Tom Crandall, of the Nebraska Regiment:

The boys are getting sick of fighting these heathens, and all say we volunteered to fight Spain, not heathens. Their patriotism is wearing off. We all want to come home very bad. If I ever get out of this army I will never get into another. They will be fighting four hundred years, and then never whip these people, for there are not enough of us to follow them up........The people of the United States ought to raise a howl and have us sent home.

Captain Elliott, of the Kansas Regiment, February 27th:

Talk about war being “hell,” this war beats the hottest estimate ever made of that locality. Caloocan was supposed to contain seventeen thousand inhabitants. The Twentieth Kansas swept through it, and now Caloocan contains not one living native. Of the buildings, the battered walls of the great church and dismal prison alone remain. The village of Maypaja, where our first fight occurred on the night of the fourth, had five thousand people in it at that day,—now not one stone remains upon top of another. You can only faintly imagine this terrible scene of desolation. War is worse than hell.

Leonard F. Adams, of Ozark, in the Washington Regiment:

I don’t know how many men, women, and children the Tennessee boys did kill. They would not take any prisoners. One company of the Tennessee boys was sent into headquarters with thirty prisoners, and got there with about a hundred chickens and no prisoners.

D. M. Mickle, Tennessee Regiment, at Iloilo:

The building had been taken possession of by a United States officer, and he looted it to a finish. I suspected something and followed one of his men to the place. I expected to be jumped on by the officer as soon as I found him there, as I was away from my post, but it seems he was afraid I would give him away; in fact, we were both afraid of each other. He was half drunk, and every time he saw me look at anything he would say, “Tennessee, do you like that? Well, put it in your pocket”........The house was a fine one, and richly furnished, but had been looted to a finish. The contents of every drawer had been emptied on the floor. You have no idea what a mania for destruction the average man has when the fear of the law is removed. I have see them—old sober business men too—knock chandeliers and plate-glass mirrors to pieces just because they couldn’t carry them off. It is such a pity.

Theodore Conley, of a Kansas Regiment:

Talk about dead Indians! Why, they are lying everywhere. The trenches are full of them........More harrowing still: think of the brave men from this country, men who were willing to sacrifice their lives for the freedom of Cuba, dying in battle and from disease, in a war waged for the purpose of conquering people who are fighting as the Cubans fought against Spanish tyranny and misrule. There is not a feature of the whole miserable business that a patriotic American citizen, one who loves to read of the brave deeds of the American colonists in the splendid struggle for American independence, can look upon with complacency, much less with pride. This war is reversing history. It places the American people and the government of the United States in the position occupied by Great Britain in 1776. It is an utterly causeless and defenseless war, and it should be abandoned by this government without delay. The longer it is continued, the greater crime it becomes—a crime against human liberty as well as against Christianity and civilization........Those not killed in the trenches were killed when they tried to come out........No wonder they can’t shoot, with that light thrown on them; shells bursting and infantry pouring in lead all the time. Honest to God, I feel sorry for them.

F. A. Blake, of California, in charge of the Red Cross:

I never saw such execution in my life, and hope never to see such sights as met me on all sides as our little corps passed over the field, dressing wounded. Legs and arms nearly demolished; total decapitation; horrible wounds in chests and abdomens, showing the determination of our soldiers to kill every native in sight. The Filipinos did stand their ground heroically, contesting every inch, but proved themselves unable to stand the deadly fire of our well-trained and eager boys in blue. I counted seventy-nine dead natives in one small field, and learn that on the other side of the river their bodies were stacked up for breastworks.

Colonel Funston, Twentieth Kansas Volunteers:

The boys go for the enemy as if they were chasing jackrabbits........I, for one, hope that Uncle Sam will apply the chastening rod, good, hard, and plenty, and lay it on until they come into the reservation and promise to be good “Injuns”.

E. D. Furnam, of the Washington Regiment, writes of the battles of February 4th and 5th:

We burned hundreds of houses and looted hundreds more. Some of the boys made good hauls of jewelry and clothing. Nearly every man has at least two suits of clothing, and our quarters are furnished in style; fine beds with silken drapery, mirrors, chairs, rockers, cushions, pianos, hanging-lamps, rugs, pictures, etc. We have horses and carriages, and bull-carts galore, and enough furniture and other plunder to load a steamer.

N. A. J. McDonnel, of the Utah Battery, February 22d:

The enemy numbered thousands and had courage, but could not shoot straight. People can never tell me anything about the Rough Riders charging San Juan. If these natives could shoot as accurately as the Spanish, they would have exterminated us. Fighting goes on all along the lines, many natives are killed, but we capture very few rifles, as they seem to have men to take them. Official reports say over four thousand two hundred natives have been buried by American troops. How many they have buried themselves and how many more are dead in the brush no one knows.

Frank M. Erb, of the Pennsylvania Regiment. February 27th:

We have been in this nigger-fighting business now for twenty-three days, and have been under fire for the greater part of that time. The niggers shoot over one another’s heads or any old way. Even while I am writing this the black boys are banging away at our outposts, but they very seldom hit anybody. The morning of the 6th a burying detail from our regiment buried forty-nine nigger enlisted men and two nigger officers, and when we stopped chasing them the night before, we could see ‘em carrying a great many with them. We are supposed to have killed about three hundred. Take my advice, and don’t enlist in the regulars, for you are good for three years. I am not sorry I enlisted, but you see we have had some excitement and we only have about fourteen months’ time to serve, if they keep us our full time, which is not likely. We will, no doubt, start home as soon as we get these niggers rounded up.

Anthony Michea, of the Third Artillery:

We bombarded a place called Malabon, and then we went in and killed every native we met, men, women, and children. It was a dreadful sight, the killing of the poor creatures. The natives captured some of the Americans and literally hacked them to pieces, so we got orders to spare no one.

Lieut. Henry Page, of the Regular Army:

After a stay of about eight months among these people, during which time no opportunity has been lost to study their qualities, I find myself still unable to express a decided opinion about the matter, but I can unreservedly affirm that the more evidence collected the greater my respect for the native and his capacities........The recent battle of February 5th was somewhat of a revelation to Americans. They expected the motley horde to run at the firing of the first gun. It was my good fortune to be placed—about ten hours afterward—near the spot where this first gun was fired. I found the Americans still held in check. Our artillery then began to assail the enemy’s position, and it was only by the stoutest kind of fighting that the Tennessee and Nebraska Regiments were able to drive him out. The Filipinos' retreat, however, was more creditable than their stand. Perfect order prevailed. One of their companies would hold our advance until the company in their rear could retire and reload, when in turn this company would stand until the former had retired and reloaded. A frequent exclamation along our lines was: “Haven’t these little fellows got grit?” They had more than grit—they had organization........In each town a church, a convent or priest’s home, a “tribunal,” which is courthouse, jail, and record office all in one, and a school, constitute the public buildings. The schools were neat, substantial buildings, which testified that the Spanish made an honest effort to educate the masses. The Filipino is very anxious to learn, and the new government of Aguinaldo used every effort to start afresh these schools. The number of natives who speak Spanish, as well as their native tongue, and who also know how to read and write, is remarkable. No school teacher has been appointed in San Jose, and the school buildings are held by the American officers. In spite of this discouragement there is a private school flourishing in a native hut.

http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/58/



cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 10:54 am
@JTT,
JTT, In Saigon (Ho Chi Minh), there's a War Remembrance Museum with a room full of photographs taken by two Japanese journalists that recorded many of the American atrocities during the war. It made my stomach crawl, but looked at many of those photographs, because it only confirmed what a few vets I talked during the war to told me about their experience there.

Americans know how to deny these crimes, and still believe we are the "good guys."

Nothing further from the truth.
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 11:51 am
When you throw an 18 or 19 year old into a shooting war their sense of right and wrong become perverted. This is why our military send in the young to fight wars. They are pliable and still used to doing as their told.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 11:54 am
@RABEL222,
That's true, and supported by research at Stanford and Yale on how the young can be instructed to perform violence against their fellow students. They had to stop the research, because it was going too far, but I'm sure there are internet links to these studies if one looks for them.

0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 12:47 pm
@JTT,
What the soldiers do is nothing compared to what the politicians do because they do damage they never have to look at, deal with, or even smell... They might like Stalin order the deaths of millions with the stroke of a pen and it is all statistics: What in it for me, and since I have the power; then why not... Might makes mad; and while I honor the brave even when the fear overcome by such bravery causes psychic injury, those who send people to kill are the worst sort of scum humanity has produced... They have no heart, no soul to save, and no sympathy to appeal to... They are without conscience and without remorse... They are beneath contempt...
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 12:56 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

JTT, In Saigon (Ho Chi Minh), there's a War Remembrance Museum with a room full of photographs taken by two Japanese journalists that recorded many of the American atrocities during the war. It made my stomach crawl, but looked at many of those photographs, because it only confirmed what a few vets I talked during the war to told me about their experience there.

Americans know how to deny these crimes, and still believe we are the "good guys."

Nothing further from the truth.
We are the good guys... It is not the evil that do evil; but the good who are corrupted by the evil, and coerced into doing what the evil wish for a "good cause"... There was never a good cause, and all you have to remember is the paranoia about communism, and the police state mentality we lived under... We sent kids to do the work of monsters, and for that we received our people back as monsters... There are many who still cannot cope, and many who have lived their lives in prison or pain... If we had democracy... I know it may always be a vain wish, but if we had democracy people would learn to ask what is in it for them... Why should they go and kill strangers in some foreign land when they have no reason to kill people in this land??? Injustice was at the heart and soul of it... If we had justice here we would never have delivered injustice to those people... We can only give what we have, and death is at the end of our existence... Would we rather not give life??? Would we not share democracy if we had the choice??? Would we shoot it down some ones throat; or would we offer it to all if we but had it to offer??? The death wish is the driving force in this culture, and we give it at every opportunity... How would you like your death??? With chicken and wine, or with candy???
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 01:02 pm
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:

When you throw an 18 or 19 year old into a shooting war their sense of right and wrong become perverted. This is why our military send in the young to fight wars. They are pliable and still used to doing as their told.
Ya; and because our morals are a mile wide and an inch deep... True morality has been lost to us along with the communities which once made possible our resistence... Now we have to take what is offered by way of morality, but it is all lies, and mere formality without substance... The young fight because their testosterone tells them to; but what hormones suggest, the rich and the powerful use... Their love is money... Their sex is power... In the end, they do not care who wins or lose as long as they get theirs... It is all about money and power, and that is our morality, what is behind all our morals... Whatz in it for me???... Too bad the poor will not ask the same question as the rich...
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