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Are you against Christian Sharia Law?

 
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 May, 2011 08:07 am
@revelette,
Quote:
I'm guessing its the name "Sharia" it being Arabic which literally translates to "the way."


Then there can be no objections if it means the Christian way. It's the only way being the ultimate dogma. It is flexible. Nothing fixed lasts. But it is so unwieldy that the flexibilty is too slow for us to notice. It is not like twanging a wooden ruler on a desk as some around here seem to wish it to be.

We used to severely discourage things like adultery and homosexuality. Now the most we can do is raise an eyebrow and tut-tut a bit. Those nutjobs who get the placards out are few and far between although media puts a lot of effort into deluding you to the contrary. Ovid condemned abortion and that should be good enough for anybody who has any respect for ladies.

That's flexibilty that has gone fast enough to see for those old enough and paying attention.

And evolution theory depends upon flexibility so therefore the Christian religion is the only way scientifically.

I read that the Australian aborigines had not changed their way for 14,000 years and probably wouldn't in another 14,000 years had they been left alone. Evonne Goolagong won 14 Grand Slams. (No--not in a raffle).

Atheism, if you take it seriously, is as fixed as the two times table. It puts a class in charge that cannot ever lose power. It can only work by reading the runes with measurements and they are fixed goodstyle. Of course, if we catch it in time, it might split into factions with variations on "there might be something in the old, daft stories after all. But the fundie's pure form would brush them off with the sort of arguments one hears and sees almost every day. Wouldn't it?

Christian Sharia has patience. It can wait until experiments have run their course. What it thought about the chanting mob in New York the other night I don't know. We have seen that sort of thing many times before. There was something similar in the essentials on the news the other night from Syria. Roman historians described the very same thing. There's a lack of flexibilty in it I thought. The sort of thing that might cause splits in the atheist agenda.

We do have the choice. Freeing the slaves and giving us all a vote are aspects of Christian Sharia.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 May, 2011 08:21 am
@Renaldo Dubois,
Quote:
Are you going to expect us to believe that the USA has been discriminating against homos for over 200 years because we don't allow them to get married? Now that's funny.


It is indeed but it is not quite as funny as expecting us to believe that the Church's opposition to adultery and divorce is because it sadistically wants to spike our guns for the hell of it and has no other reason.

If the big-wigs in the Church had been fornicating after being ordained where are the ladies who could get a dip from media for blowing them up. I have seen it once and he was only a Bishop.
0 Replies
 
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 May, 2011 10:33 am
@Renaldo Dubois,
Renaldo Dubois wrote:

You are demanding rights based on sexual preference.

I'm not saying they deserve the rights because they are homosexual, but because they are no less human.

Renaldo Dubois wrote:

That is discrimination.

I'm not asking for equal rights. There is not right I believe that homosexual should have that heterosexuals should not. Discrimination is obstruction of a service or good; a preference based on a bias towards a group.

Renaldo Dubois wrote:

Are you going to expect us to believe that the USA has been discriminating against homos for over 200 years because we don't allow them to get married? Now that's funny.

Yes. Homosexuals have been discriminated against for this time. Longer really, since Constantine in Rome and the rise of Christianity.

Renaldo Dubois wrote:

Marriage is a state issue. Every state has marriage laws and always has. That is why you and you pals need to take everything to a liberal judge to get what you want even after the people have spoken.

The Full Faith and Credit Clause of the US Constitution is not. So if a state issues a marriage licence all states must recognize it. The passage of DOMA let states pick and choose which further violated the Equal Protection Clause.

It's not just liberal judges that feel so. It simply needs to make it to court. Iowa has same sex marriage and that decision was made by a conservative court. When experts review the constitution, it becomes clear that denying homosexuals the right to marry each other is a violation of EPC and not recognizing their marriage in other states is a violation of the FFC.

Renaldo Dubois wrote:

You won't get very far by calling blacks stupid. I don't think my family takes that very kindly.

I did not call anyone stupid. I addressed the entire vote.

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Renaldo Dubois
 
  0  
Reply Fri 6 May, 2011 12:06 pm
@failures art,
I didn't say anything about homos being less than human. You did.

You are demanding special rights for sexual preference. That is unconstitutional.
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 May, 2011 12:23 pm
@Renaldo Dubois,
Renaldo Dubois wrote:

I didn't say anything about homos being less than human. You did.

I don't believe they are less human. I believe they are every bit as human and deserving of equal rights.

Renaldo Dubois wrote:

You are demanding special rights for sexual preference. That is unconstitutional.

No special rights. I want them to have the same rights that you and I already enjoy. There's no special rights I'm arguing for.

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Renaldo Dubois
 
  0  
Reply Fri 6 May, 2011 12:44 pm
@failures art,
You said they deserve rights because they are not less than human. That fact is determined in your own mind.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 May, 2011 01:17 pm
@failures art,
Of course there are special rights you are arguing for. It is for homosexuals to call themselves what they are not--married men. You are demanding the right to distort the language on a whim.

And you are demanding the right to continue in a debate without answering some of the points others raise. That is denying the rights of those others to have any points they raise given an answer. Which is stubborn bigotry and a claim to be a law unto us all.

And that discredits the side you are on.
0 Replies
 
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 May, 2011 02:15 pm
@Renaldo Dubois,
Renaldo Dubois wrote:

You said they deserve rights because they are not less than human. That fact is determined in your own mind.

Homosexuals are human. Do you believe otherwise? Why would they be any less than human?

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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 May, 2011 03:14 pm
@failures art,
You won't tar me with that brush fa. Of course they are human. 100%. Same as me. 2011 human. Part of which consists in every side having its say, which they more than get, and the consensus resulting from a free vote.

And they will lose votes if they stoop to tactics such as accusing opponents of considering them sub human.
0 Replies
 
Renaldo Dubois
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 May, 2011 03:21 pm
@failures art,
Who are you talking to, yourself? You've just erected a "straw man". You are the only one who has mentioned anything about homos being less than human. Anytime you're ready to get back to reality, please let me know.
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 May, 2011 06:34 pm
@Renaldo Dubois,
Renaldo Dubois wrote:

Who are you talking to, yourself?

No. I'm talking with you.

Renaldo Dubois wrote:

You've just erected a "straw man". You are the only one who has mentioned anything about homos being less than human.

I'd said they are no less human than heterosexuals. I view this as an issue of human rights.

A strawman would be if I said you thought homosexuals were less than human. You made some statements asserting that I wanted special privileges for homosexuals because they are homosexual. I have made no such argument. That is by definition a strawman. I've only asked you if you feel homosexuals are less than human for clarification. I base my views on this being an issue of human rights. I'd like to know where you stand so I can address your views accurately.

I believe homosexuals deserve equal marriage rights because they are human.

Renaldo Dubois wrote:

Anytime you're ready to get back to reality, please let me know.

So could you answer my question: Do you believe homosexuals are less human than heterosexuals?

I don't want to misrepresent your views when addressing you. It's a simple question. I think you should ask me more question too. You've presented many strawmen asserting what I think and further asserted why I think it. That wouldn't be so bad if you offered it to us as your opinion in terms of "I think you believe X because you believe Y," but you simply state things about my views.

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Renaldo Dubois
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 May, 2011 08:16 am
@failures art,
This is not a human rights issue. If this is a human rights issue then why did 70% of blacks in California vote homo marriage down?

According to you, 70% of blacks in California are against human rights. Explain that to us and try to do it without calling my family stupid. I don't think the black Americans in my family appreciate you telling them they voted a certain way because they didn't understand the ballot. Do you insult black Americans often or is this just a mistake. I certainly hope so. Waiting for your reply.
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 May, 2011 12:26 pm
@Renaldo Dubois,
Renaldo Dubois wrote:

This is not a human rights issue.

Can you what defines a human rights issue is in your opinion?

Renaldo Dubois wrote:

If this is a human rights issue then why did 70% of blacks in California vote homo marriage down?

Why would that make it any less a human rights issue?

Renaldo Dubois wrote:

According to you, 70% of blacks in California are against human rights.

No more than the Caucasian, Hispanic, or Asian people who voted for Prop 8. Why are you focusing on one community?

Renaldo Dubois wrote:

Explain that to us and try to do it without calling my family stupid. I don't think the black Americans in my family appreciate you telling them they voted a certain way because they didn't understand the ballot. Do you insult black Americans often or is this just a mistake. I certainly hope so. Waiting for your reply.

I haven't called your family stupid. I said many people may not have know what yes and no votes meant. Even you posted the wrong question. Perhaps you are amongst those who are confused. You said people voted not to make same sex marriage legal. If that was on the ballot, a "yes" vote means the exact opposite thing. In this case, a "yes" vote meant ending the state's same sex marriage.

That's not calling people stupid. I'm more critical of those who made a direct effort to confuse the voters on the topic and what the vote was about. Perfectly normal people with above average intelligence can be mislead and deceived.

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Renaldo Dubois
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 May, 2011 12:28 pm
@failures art,
You are claiming the Blacks didn't understand the ballot. You have yet to establish that idea.

The reason I am focusing on one community is because they demanded civil rights and got it because they were being denied their human rights. Now explain to us why would 70% of blacks in California deny human rights to homos.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 May, 2011 02:08 pm
@Renaldo Dubois,
Renaldo Dubois wrote:

The reason I am focusing on one community is because they demanded civil rights and got it because they were being denied their human rights. Now explain to us why would 70% of blacks in California deny human rights to homos.


Well, wouldn't it be a good idea that at first you explain why you deny human rights? You are here in this site ...
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 May, 2011 02:18 pm
@Renaldo Dubois,
Renaldo Dubois wrote:

You are claiming the Blacks didn't understand the ballot. You have yet to establish that idea.

I've made no such claim. I invite you to reread my posts.

Renaldo Dubois wrote:

The reason I am focusing on one community is because they demanded civil rights and got it because they were being denied their human rights.

Overcoming your own struggle for human rights does not mean you are incapable of the same kinds of prejudice to other groups. The same can be said for the Baptists. Prejudice from larger sects/denominations of Christians used to work against them. They used to be some of the loudest voices for separation of church and state.

Human rights have to be constantly defended.

Renaldo Dubois wrote:

Now explain to us why would 70% of blacks in California deny human rights to homos.

It's possible much of the message outreach failed to meet the group. Also, African American communities tend to be very religious. As with most people who voted yes on Prop 8, I suspect that religion was the largest factor, not race, not intelligence.

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failures art
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 May, 2011 02:20 pm
@failures art,
failures art wrote:

Renaldo Dubois wrote:

This is not a human rights issue.

Can you what defines a human rights issue is in your opinion?


I'd still like you to answer this question, Renaldo. Thank you.

Also, here are some words from the NAACP on Prop 8 after the vote. Perhaps this will provide more insight to you. I'm not black, I'm of mixed race, but not black. My brother is black, so I too have family who is black.

Quote:

The NAACP Takes a Stance Against Prop. 8

Back in November, the wounds in the black community over California's Proposition 8 were still fresh. The community was divided between more conservative leaders, often clergy, who oppose marriage equality for religious reasons, and civil- and human-rights activists who saw the ballot initiative to prohibit same-sex marriage as a civil-rights violation they could not countenance. While the California chapter of America's oldest civil-rights organization, the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, had come out in opposition to Prop. 8, the national office had remained silent.

The NAACP has been walking a tightrope on gay rights. Polls show that African Americans overwhelmingly oppose gay marriage, but much of the high-level leadership of the nation's oldest civil-rights organization opposes legal efforts to deny gays the right to marry. Last week, the national office of the NAACP leapt into the fray when it sent a letter to California legislators urging them to support legislation that would repeal Prop. 8. After meeting with the National Black Justice Coalition, a black LGBT-rights group, and the leadership of the California State Conference, NAACP Chairman Julian Bond and NAACP President Ben Jealous agreed to come out publicly in support of repealing Prop. 8.

The move thrusts the NAACP into the middle of a fight that, until now, it has largely avoided, because of the risk of alienating both board-level leadership and rank-and-file members. The California legislature approved a nonbinding resolution yesterday describing Prop. 8 as an improper revision of the state constitution. The resolution contends that Prop. 8 should have passed a two-thirds majority of the legislature before being placed on the ballot. The California Supreme Court is scheduled to hear challenges to Prop. 8 on Thursday.

Jason Bartlett, deputy director of the National Black Justice Coalition, was excited by the NAACP's move: "It's the boldest thing I've seen in some time, definitely the boldest thing that they've done on gay rights. … It's historic." Bartlett argues that the NAACP intervening on behalf of gay rights will give other black leaders and organizations cover to do the same. At a meeting of the Caucus of Black State Legislators in December 2008, Bartlett, who is also a state legislator in Connecticut, unsuccessfully tried to get the CBSL to take a position on gay rights. He was rebuffed.

"An executive board member said, 'We will not be the first mainstream black organization to take a position.'" Bartlett says. "In other words, we're not going alone."

With cover from the NAACP, black organizations moving toward support of LGBT rights won't have to go it alone anymore. At the same time, the NAACP still has to deal with opposition to gay rights from within its own ranks. "There is a lot of homophobia in the NAACP," says California Conference President Alice Huffman, who was also a paid consultant to the "No on 8" campaign. "There are a lot of Christians who feel threatened."

The NAACP still hasn't endorsed gay marriage -- but this is the strongest stance it has taken against laws that would prohibit the practice. The distinction is meant to alleviate tension between board members who are religiously opposed to same-sex marriage. But even so, several board members expressed displeasure with the letter Bond wrote to the California Legislature. In the letter, Bond writes, "Proposition 8 subverts … basic and necessary safeguards, unjustly putting all Americans, particularly vulnerable minorities, at risk of discrimination by a majority show of hands."

"There are people on the board … mainly clergy, they misunderstood," Huffman says. "They thought Julian was writing to support same-sex marriage when that is not the case at all."

Recently, Bond and Huffman have arranged the creation of a task force that would deal with the issue of gay marriage at the board level. The composition and guidelines of the task force haven't been established yet, but Huffman tentatively described it as a way to build "additional support on the board level for same-sex marriage and to reduce homophobia on the board level."

The NAACP will not only have to deal with dissent within its own organization but with the stark reality of black opposition to same-sex marriage. While the NAACP still remains the nation's largest civil-rights organization at 300,000 members, both its membership and influence have been waning for some time. At the same time, however, as the country has grown more progressive on issues of gay rights, so has the NAACP.

For Pastor Amos Brown, the president of the San Francisco chapter of the NAACP, opposition to Prop. 8 had serious consequences. Several weeks after the election, a significant number of donors had pulled out of the local NAACP's fundraising dinner because of his opposition to Prop 8. Brown was angry, but he wouldn't back down from his position.

"We don't live in a theocracy," Brown told me when I spoke with him in November . Brown, who opposes banning same-sex marriage but also says he wouldn't perform a same-sex marriage ceremony in his church, says his dedication to civil rights and opposition to Prop. 8 come from a similar place. He recalls first seeing a picture of Emmitt Till, a youth who was lynched in 1955 for supposedly making a pass at a white woman.

"When I saw that picture," Brown says, "I promised God myself, never would I be mean to people who were different."

Brown's fundraising dinner wasn't ruined. Jealous, the then-brand new president of the NAACP, raised $19,000 to replace the donors who backed out, and even flew in from Baltimore to show his support for Brown.

In an interview with the Prospect in January, Jealous explained his reasons for coming to Brown's aid. "I was there to defend our branch and their right to act on their conscience," Jealous says, "and I was there as a Californian whose brother is gay, and who personally just couldn't stand by."

"I think what remains to be seen is the reaction to the NAACP, which has often been out of touch with the rest of the [the black community]," says blogger and LGBT activist Pam Spaulding. "We have a lot to do to turn back homophobia in the black church and the black community."

Still, Spaulding describes the NAACP's move as "extremely significant." "By and large, black LGBTs are rendered invisible," Spaulding says. "The conversation over the gay community always seems to only be about [white gays]."

While the NAACP's national office has often avoided taking stances on gay-rights issues, some influential leaders within the organization have privately stood in favor of LGBT rights. When the Rev. Frederick Douglass Haynes III was in the running to be the NAACP's new president, Chairman Bond quietly took him aside and asked about his position on Proposition 8. Haynes and Bond agreed that it was a civil-rights issue.

"Those who framed it in moral terms," Haynes says, "were missing out that in this nation, we all deserve equal protection under the law."


source

You're asking me to speculate. I can only do so to a certain degree. Same as you. So why do you think 70% of black voters voted yes on Prop 8?

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0 Replies
 
Renaldo Dubois
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 May, 2011 06:15 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
I think you should first tell us when you quit beating your wife.
Renaldo Dubois
 
  0  
Reply Sat 7 May, 2011 06:17 pm
@failures art,
How dare you accuse my family of voting against the human rights of Americans. You don't have anything to establish that. You're indoctrination is kicking in again. This has nothing to do with "human rights". If it does, then the NAACP is guilty of human rights abuses. When are they going to be charged?

Another point is this. Are blacks supposed to vote the way the NAACP tells them to? I think those days are coming to an end, especially after the first black President has been such a failure.
Renaldo Dubois
 
  0  
Reply Sat 7 May, 2011 06:37 pm
@failures art,
You did make that claim earlier. You said the way it was written could have confused people. In other words, they're too dumb to figure it out. You really should cease the racist BS.

Another thing you should do is find your info from more reasonable sources. Those left wing sites are full of indoctrination. You're probably so indoctrinated you don't even notice it. I noticed it right away with the term "equal marriage rights", which translates into equal rights for gays.

How about we give brothers and sisters the right to marry if they want to. Who are we to stop them if they love each other. Why do you deny them their equal rights? You big meanie.
 

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