0
   

FOR THE GOOD OF THE TRIBE . . .

 
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2003 11:49 am
interesting observation fishin'. I base mine on the fact the squinney's folks are in Missouri and Oklahoma....when I go there the culture shock is amazing to me....E. St. Louis aside, suddenly I don't see any blacks. This I know with my own eyes.

I also traveled a lot when I was a touring musician and I do not recall seeing many minorities in for instance Iowa, Missouri, the Dakotas, Nebraska, Wisconsin, except in larger urban areas or what passes for large urban areas in these places...and not just blacks, not that many native Americans, Asians or Hispanics either, the most stunning though was the lack of blacks......
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2003 12:11 pm
I voted for the damn sammiches.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2003 12:21 pm
I'm even gettin' sick of the damned sammiches, EB . . .
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2003 12:47 pm
They're basically ham sammiches -- do I often detect a bit of over acting in these threads? We certainly have our quota of drama queens.

The only thing I will brag about Orange County is the weather (but not if it's hit by any El Nino storms which is thankfully only about every five or six years -- we're way overdue now). We do have earthquakes and firestorms to contend with. Culturally, there's a cross section of humanity that lives here and mostly for the weather, the beaches, the mountains -- every kind of environment is within a hour's drive. Laguna Beach is like a small town on the Riviera with it's little coves and mostly residential habitue. The "Orange Curtain" was withdrawn with the Peforming Arts Center, a first class symphony orchestra, some more serious art galleries -- the Laguna Beach Art Museum consistently shows up on the top ten list of small regional museums and it's perched on a hill overlooking the Pacific! I can't say a lot about the restaurant food, thought. "The Celler" in Fullerton is consistently good French but there is a proliferation of waterside restaurants with great views but mediocre food and service. Damn, and Scandia is gone in L.A.!
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2003 12:51 pm
If you despair of tribalism then don't look at the sports reports from Glasgow, Scotland when Rangers play soccer against local rivals Celtic.

And the police and hospital reports for the hours following the game.
0 Replies
 
cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2003 12:57 pm
BPB, what are you saying, midwest kids don't get the Fox network, with all their positive urban-oriented comedies?
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2003 12:59 pm
Setanta wrote:
I really don't need lessons in ethics from someone who spouts a bit of mealy mouthed hypocricy such as this, after your statement in another thread:

Frank Apisa wrote:
The Chinese are among the most calculating human beings on the planet Earth.


Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, Frank. But i've come to expect this sort of thing from you, so no big surprise.

Hoist on your own petard, Frank.


Forgot about this part earlier...

...so that nobody is left with the impression that I was bad-mouthing the Chinese with my comment about them being calculating -- as Setanta, who obviously has the ethics of a rattlesnake, would prefer...allow me to explain my remark.

In the other thread we were discussing the possibility of war between Mainland China and Taiwan -- and about George Bush's warning to the Taiwanese not to change the status quo.

In response to that issue, I wrote:

Quote:
The Chinese are among the most calculating human beings on the planet Earth.

Neither side is going to paint themselves into a corner -- and both sides know how to word things in a way that makes it look as though something is being said -- when it really ain't.

This game has a very, very long way to go -- and my guess at the moment is that Taiwan will one day beg to be re-admitted to the mainland, because mainland China will more than likely one day be billed as "one of the world's only two super powers" -- if not "the world's only super power."

China is on the move big-time!


So you can easily see that at no point was I condemning nor casting aspersions on the Chinese -- but merely calling attention to the fact that I see them as soon-to-be big-time players on the world stage who would not likely accidentally fall into war among themselves. My "calculating" remark was meant as a compliment - and Setanta knows that, but he is not above taking a cheap shot and representing it to be some kind of insult.

But he's not the brightest bulb on the tree -- and in the interests of charity, we should forgive him for the stupid stuff he does and says.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2003 02:15 pm
You were speaking of Chinese politicians -- I find out own are sufficiently calculating to give them the booby prize.
0 Replies
 
IronLionZion
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2003 02:53 pm
Re: FOR THE GOOD OF THE TRIBE . . .
Setanta wrote:
I was listening to our local talk radio station this morning, which is a part of the University system, and therefor an NPR station. They had one of their "bicentennial minutes" (Ohio became a state in 1803), and then referred to a book by a professor in Ohio, which is subtitled: The History of a People.. This rather bothers me. The population of Ohio comes not just from Ohio, but from all over the union. Certainly it would not be unreasonable to suggest that the majority of the population was born and raised in Ohio, but not the totality of the population. There are for example, a great many natives of New York in Columbus. These are the people most likely to condemn Columbus as a "cow town." In this, they display their ignorance in two ways: it shows that they don't know what a cow town is; it also shows that they don't appreciate the rather rich cultural offerings. In a town of just less than 700,000 inhabitants, there are three permanent theater groups, a symphony orchestra, two chamber orchestras, three choirs, a ballet, an opera company, a Carnegie library (as distinct from the Ohio State University libraries), four universities and two colleges, the School of Art and Design (internationally renowned), an internationally known botanical gardens and conservatory . . . the list is long indeed.


I don't think he intended the title of his book to be taken literally.

Quote:
Which lead me to consider the parochialism of New Yorkers and Angelenos. The denizens of New York and Los Angeles often speak as though there were a great cultural and intellectual void lying between their city limits, filled with rubes whose political opinions spoil the whole show for them. I am definitely in a political minority in Ohio, which is largely conservative, and usually Republican. No one has yet, however, offered to lynch me for my opinions. I think our regular members know that i don't hide my light under a bushel. What bothers me most in all of this is the aspect of tribalism. There is a sense among many people throughout the country of "us and all the rest of you people." It really is too depressing to think that the human race has progressed to its current level of development, and still is comprised of small groups with essentially tribal views. I'd like to know your thoughts on this subject.


The human race has not developed at all in the last few thousand years. Our ideas and institutions may have changed, but human beings remain the same. The same issues still confront us - they just come in different manifestations.

Increasing 'tribalism' is hardly surprising. It is a global phenomenon. As the world moves out of the Cold War era - where identity was based on ideology, and nations/people could choose sides - it moves into a new era defined by cultural identity. Are you familiar with Samuel P Huntington?

With regards to your complaint about the percieved arrogance of LA and NYC: There is immeasurably more cultural and historical divirsity and heritage in NYC and LA than there is in your town. This is a fact. Good for you - you live in a place with alot to offer. However, although the space between big cities and small ones is not a "cultural and intellectual void" - it is certainly a noticable gap. Every state has its own good parts, but c'mon, realistically, Ohio isn't exactly a cultural mecca. Get over it.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2003 02:56 pm
it does seem that Ohio, named for a river that doesnt even pass through it, has gotten the old shaft of recognition. Outside of a few notable military figures ,(ahem), Ohio seems to be a "pass through" state. Even good art shows are usually on loan. Like a few years ago , when the Thomas Eakins show was hung at the Art School on Rt 16, these were all loaners from philly, NY, or boston.

Dont feel bad , why there are more Hopewell mounds in and around Columbus and Newark than anywhere else in Ohio, . And theres the second largest coal strip mine. Ohio has the largest population of Amish, surpassing Pa
(Boy I was really getting tired of that "home of the PA dutch" sobriquet around my states neck) Do they have auto safety inspections in Ohio yet? or are Ohio roads still littered with rolling rust buckets?

I had lived in Zanesville for a while when i was helping set up a glass quarry used to make coke bottles. you talk about dull. It had all the intellectual stimulus of West texas with none of the possible adventures.
You mean you live in ohio/ No wonder your so testy.
Yo know, You could hang out at Batelles shop near the columbus airport. They always have a need for resaerching historians who are willing to travel (like get away)
0 Replies
 
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2003 03:01 pm
Why are we honouring scrat? What did he do?

Just curious, how long has this little spat lasted?

Mctag, the celtic/ranger football reaction is unbelieveable. It's one group of pasty skinned, ruddy faced people hating another pasty skinned, ruddy faced group over a game. The supporters choose their teams based on a religion few of them practice. Stupid.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2003 03:44 pm
No, Farmerman, they don't have any auto safety regulation here. I often feel that i am living in the 1950's here in Ohio. I don't attribute that to Ohioans being essentially different than other Americans, though. I rather suspect that if a complete comparison of regulation and statute were possible among the 50 states (which i doubt will ever happen), Ohio would prove to better than some, and worse than others. There is a "lemon" law in Ohio, tailor made to assure that acute lawyers don't get ripped off at a used car lot. Battelle actually does a good deal of the higher level of scientific research, usually on contract to the U.S. gummint--they were the ones who came up with depleted uranium for armor plate, among other little gems.

Yeah, Boss, i live in Ohio. Could be better, could be worse. I'm an introverted type, so i can be testy to this degree no matter where i live. Mostly, i've got a job too good to give up, except for my sweetiepie, which is something i have been considering.

Speaking of dim bulbs, Frank . . . your remark is a prejudiced remark whether or not the context is political. Such an observation could be as reasonably made of any people who have a plan for their political future, and suggesting that being Chinese makes them extraordinarily calculating is a racist remark in any case--unless, of course, you were referring to their facility with the abacus. It does not in the least surprise me to see you using ad hominem, its right in line with the quality of the rest of your forensic style.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2003 03:46 pm
Ceili, i honored Scrat because in a thread which had absolutely nothing to do with baloon animals, he posted a poll in which he invited the respondants to list their favorite baloon animals. I thought it clever, and was very amused. As i was using an idea which was originally Scrat's when i created the poll above, i thought it simple justice to give credit where it is due.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2003 04:09 pm
Re: FOR THE GOOD OF THE TRIBE . . .
IronLionZion wrote:
I don't think he intended the title of his book to be taken literally.


No ****, Sherlock. You might consider the possibility that i meant exactly what i said, that it was simply something which set me to thinking about this topic, as opposed my having taken umbrage to what i considered a base attempt at reification on the part of the author.

Quote:
The human race has not developed at all in the last few thousand years. Our ideas and institutions may have changed, but human beings remain the same. The same issues still confront us - they just come in different manifestations.

Increasing 'tribalism' is hardly surprising. It is a global phenomenon. As the world moves out of the Cold War era - where identity was based on ideology, and nations/people could choose sides - it moves into a new era defined by cultural identity. Are you familiar with Samuel P Huntington?


This is an interesting take, and precisely the kind of response i was hoping for when i started this thread. So at least a part of your post is somewhat more than worthless.

Quote:
With regards to your complaint about the percieved arrogance of LA and NYC: There is immeasurably more cultural and historical divirsity and heritage in NYC and LA than there is in your town. This is a fact. Good for you - you live in a place with alot to offer. However, although the space between big cities and small ones is not a "cultural and intellectual void" - it is certainly a noticable gap. Every state has its own good parts, but c'mon, realistically, Ohio isn't exactly a cultural mecca. Get over it.


There is nothing for me to get over. I enjoy symphony orchestras, but do not enjoy being in large crowds. Once a decade is sufficient for me to hear a live performance, and the rather excellent performance of Beethoven's Ninth, with the Schiller choral piece attached (as it usually is) which was the program of my last visit was wonderful. Otherwise, i am content to listen to "Music in Mid-Ohio" which is broadcast on the local NPR station. I did not refer to any arrogance on the part of New Yorkers and Angelenos. You, like Frank, need to read this over again for context. In Columbus there are many "transplanted" New Yorkers, such as myself. Many of them complain about the "cow town," as have some individuals who have identified themselves to me as Angelenos. I find it silly. I also find it parochial. I've heard New Yorkers and Angelenos make remarks of that character about other parts of the country, and other aspects of life outside their respective burgs. It's just an example of tribalism, which i was adducing as i introduced the subject. If, as i hope to do in the not distant future, i move to Toronto, i will have many opportunities to immerse myself in the many cultures of that city. There are not, however, any more cultures present there than there are in Columbus, Ohio, which is about the most culturally diverse city of its size i have ever encountered. And, once again, as i am a largely introverted person, i'm more likely to sit at home and listen to broadcasts of the type of music i prefer, if i am one day living in Toronto, than to actually attend the performances, given my distaste for crowds. However, when my sweetiepie wants to go to a Taffelmusik concert, i'll likely join her, as i enjoy her company immensely, in a crowd, or simply sitting on the sofa.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2003 04:37 pm
Setanta wrote:
Speaking of dim bulbs, Frank . . . your remark is a prejudiced remark whether or not the context is political. Such an observation could be as reasonably made of any people who have a plan for their political future, and suggesting that being Chinese makes them extraordinarily calculating is a racist remark in any case--unless, of course, you were referring to their facility with the abacus. It does not in the least surprise me to see you using ad hominem, its right in line with the quality of the rest of your forensic style.



Give it up, Setanta. By now, everyone knows you are about as real as a 3 dollar bill.

There was nothing about my remark that was in any way isulting toward the Chinese -- in fact, quite the opposite. But it requires a brain to see that -- so I really shouldn't fault you for missing it.

As for the "ad hominem" remark, I guess the best thing that can be said about it is that it undoubtedly caused several people to laugh when they read it coming from you.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2003 04:42 pm
Although, of course, Frank, when they read your typical nastiness, they just nod their heads at the profundity of your wisdom, eh?

You're going out on a limb (a location with which you ought to be very familiar) in supposing you know what the reactions of others to be.

Once again, the Chinese are not to be esteemed as any more, nor any less, calculating in their formulation of policy than any other people with an eye to their own advantage. I don't expect that you will accept that, as you seem to think that making that prejudicial remark is somehow complimentary. I picked that line out in particular, in that thread, because it is so absurd.

The topic here is tribalism in a modern world, Frank. Do you have anything to contribute other than your usual contempt for me? Or did you just drop by to sneer?
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2003 04:54 pm
Setanta
Setanta, to get back to your original fascinating topic. The perils of not understanding overtly tribal societies is evidenced in the US's disastrous foreign policy over and over again.

But on a local basis, my move last year from the San Francisco Bay Area to the west side of the Rio Grande River in Albuquerque, New Mexico was certainly an episode of "culture shock" for me, but pleasantly so. I have found people to be kind and friendly to me. Albuquerque has a large and varied arts culture, but my age and disabilities do not encourage me any longer to look for cultural events to attend. Perhaps that will change if I ever finish unpacking moving boxes. I've not met a large number of people yet to entice me to events, but Cable TV and the Internet help to fill the void of intellectual interests I've not yet discovered here.

The things I bitch a lot about are the poor quality of news broadcasts and the two local newspapers. They are pitiful examples of good big city media. I find myself arguing with the news "readers" and wondering why I continue to subscribe to the newspaper when I've already read much of the national and international news on the Internet the day before. But I like to work the crossword puzzles and a couple of other things. I do enjoy a good classical music station while driving in my car, which is unusual away from the big cities.

BBB
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2003 05:41 pm
BBB, I don't know if it is still true, but the UNM FM radio station, when i lived in New Mexico, was very entertaining for the mix of music which they provided.

My situation is similar to yours, but for the very different reason that i am introverted, and therefore, a homebody. The internet is a wonderful resource for people such as i, and i have been fortunate that there has been a good radio station playing "classical" music wherever i have lived. I think it is precisely because i've lived so many different places that parochialism (which i see as a glorified tribalism) is so noticeable to me. The "bicentennial minutes" are played all throughout the day on the local NPR station, and they plug that book at the end of each one; however, today, it just struck me, and set me thinking about this topic . . .
0 Replies
 
pistoff
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2003 05:59 pm
Insult
"the ethics of a rattlesnake"

This statement is highly insulting to rattlesnakes. This is stereotyping to a new level and unjustly biased. I demand an apology on behalf of all my rattlesnake friends. Evil or Very Mad
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2003 11:55 pm
ILZ has stated:

Quote:
The human race has not developed at all in the last few thousand years. Our ideas and institutions may have changed, but human beings remain the same. The same issues still confront us - they just come in different manifestations.

Increasing 'tribalism' is hardly surprising. It is a global phenomenon. As the world moves out of the Cold War era - where identity was based on ideology, and nations/people could choose sides - it moves into a new era defined by cultural identity. Are you familiar with Samuel P Huntington?


The initial paragraph seems to me absurd. I agree wholeheartedly that the constant in any human social equation is human nature--more or less, i agree that human beings remain the same. But i agree with a great many reservations. Assuredly, the same issues do not confront us, at least to the extent that this suggests that those issues have not changed. The possiblity of nuclear extinction; the threat of a fatal poisoning of the environment; the spectre of global starvation due to overpopulation--none of these issues troubled our ancestors. Hobbes' contention that "life in a state of nature is a war of all against all" is considerably less true now than it was when he wrote those words. Any "war of all against all" which exists in most parts of the planet now is not a product of "a state of nature," but rather of a chosen view of ourselves and others which i have here characterized as tribalism. Therefore, i consider the statements in the first paragraph to be facile--facile statements have a great appeal, as being able to dispense with difficult issues quickly and neatly. I would apply that same judgment to the second paragraph. ILZ posits an increasing tribalism, and claims (perhaps on the strength of Huntington's contentions) that it would follow naturally that tribalism would increase absent the strictures claimed to have flowed from the cold war. Choosing sides in the the struggle between the "free world" and the "iron curtain" certainly had fiscal advantages for the power brokers of subsaharan Africa, for example, but no nation in Africa below the Sahara was ever obliged by political necessity to choose sides. None of those nations was ever within a nuclear "free fire zone."

As for being identified culturally, that is, to my mind, a matter of choice as well. We have the concept of the tribe thanks to the Romans. I don't suggest that the anthropologist or ethnologist is wrong to speak of tribes with regard to peoples with no relation to the Romans--i'm just pointing out that the Romans gave us the tribe as a concept. For the Romans, the tribe was the basic political, civic, military and fiscal unit. The city was initially organized into three tribes. Their Hernican and Latin vassals were organized into tribes as well, in the mind of the Patres, at least. Whether or not the Latins and Hernicans saw themselves as so ordered i doubt anyone could state with authority. Having been wed to the Romans, in the shotgun style of that ceremony, the Latin speaking peoples were accorded all the "benefits" of the Roman tribe, save only the franchise. The three tribes of Rome were the only voting tribes. When, eventually, the Principiate empire came to accord the rights of Roman citizenship to others, they were organized into tribes.

Therefore, it is not surprising that Iulius Caesar writes of the Helvetii (the first people with whom he felt he had to deal upon taking up his duties in Cisalpine Gaul) as being a tribe. It is not certain, however, that the ancient Swiss saw themselves in such a manner. Having been driven back into their mountain fastnesses by Caesar, they organized themselves into what Latin speaking people of the middle ages were pleased to call cantons--once again, a distinctly Roman idea, and a rather contemptuous one, as a cantonment is the English version of a term the Romans applied to the encampments of "primitives" whom they despised, and specifically relating to the presence of the women and children. But the Swiss themselves saw fit to make distinctions within their own society, writing of the "forest cantons," as opposed to those among them who lived in towns and villages. When the "tribes" of Germans in Transalpine Gaul had been well ground between the upper and nether millstones of the Gothic migration and the Roman expansion, the survivors of the Chattii, the Cheruscii, the Suebii, the Ubii and the Treverii (my apologies to those "tribes" i have failed to include) formed a confederation which, deriving a name from their term for a free man, was known as the Franks. But this confederation itself was not entirely cohesive, the Franks broke into two major groupings known to historians as the Salian Franks and the Ripurian Franks. This is suggestive to me not so much of a tendancy to adhere to cultural identities as it is of entropy. There was no stong distinction of language or culture to have separated the Franks into two distinct groups, simply a matter of distance and geography.

I rather think that as the clan is the family writ large, so the tribe is the clan writ large. The tendancy for groups to fragment seems not stronger than the tendancy of groups to ally and unite. The one might be seen as indicative of a prosperity and absence of pressure which makes the larger grouping seem unnecessary, the latter a response to a perceived threat to survival. The Illiniwek (to the French, the Illinois) recognized among themselves distinct groups known as septs--such as the Mendota or the Tamaroa. Each winter they moved to a "cantonment" at a place high on the Illinois River now known as Starved Rock. Pooling their resources and applying a limited authority to the distribution of food helped to assure the survival through the winter of the greatest number, ostensibly. When spring brought the prospect of plenty through hunting and gathering, and the necessity to disperse for the exploitation of agriculture, disperse they did.

But the dynamics of "tribalism" are not so facile and easily delineated as that. Beginning in about 1640, the Iroquois Confederation decided to engross the fur trade of the Great Lakes region. To accomplish that end, they intended to exterminate all of the competition. They nearly succeeded with the Huron, who were their closest relatives among the peoples of that region--one group, possibly a Huron sept, known as the Cat people, were entirely exterminated. The Jesuits who recorded these events hadn't made any inroads with these people, so we unfortunately know little of them. They wreaked a great slaughter on the Pottawattamie, and drove them from the shores of Lake Erie to the banks of the lower Ohio. They drove the Illiniwek from the valley of the Des Plaines and the Upper Illinois to the western banks of the Mississippi, exterminating the Tamaroa in the process. They did great slaughter to the Outagamie, or "Fox Nation," but met with a decided check from the people among whom Cadillac founded the settlement which would one day become Detroit. In none of this did they simply seek their own survival. From the earliest days of Champlain's exploration, when he and his fellows joined an Ottawa war party in attacking the Iroquois, those people considered themselves in a war to the death with the French. Wealth in St. Laurent valley and the Great Lakes came in the form of beaver pelts. The Iroquois needed to finance their war with the French, and hoped to fund their dream of exterminating or driving off all of the Algonquian peoples. They believed they could exterminate the tribes of the region, and have all of the fur trade to themselves, to trade with the Dutch at Albany, to buy the wherewithal to accomplish their larger purpose of destoying the Algonquian and the French. When Cartier visisted the valley of the St. Laurent in the 1530's, he recorded some of the vocabulary of the aboriginal inhabitants he met there. Parkman tells us that 19th century linguists have identified this as Iroquoian vocabulary. If true, this would suggest that the Algonquian had driven the Iroquois from the region of present-day Quebec to the valley of the Mohawk. Without stating that this is absolutely the truth, i would suggest that this may explain why the Iroquois of the "five nations" formed a confederation, for survival. But having survived, it was their particular cultural choice, and not an inevitability, that they would thereafter dedicate themselves to revenge against the Algonquian, and, when the French intervened on the side of their enemies, revenge against the French.

I would posit, therefore, that tribalism is far more complex than is suggested by simply stating that it is in the nature of the human race. Such a suggestion does not account for why such groupings would organize on a higher level. The racial theories so popular in the 19th century, which eventually were "canonized" by the Nazis, were widely accepted. This was no mere tribalism. A schoolmate of Bismark, John Motley, having completed his studies at Gottingen, began a life-long career with the U.S. State Department. He also wrote a thoroughly researched and invaluable history of the foundation of the Dutch state--the United Provinces which fought an 84 year war of rebellion against the Spanish. In it, he begins with a turgid paean to the racial superiority of the German-speaking peoples of northwestern Europe. His claim is that there is a direct progression from the Dutch rebellion, through the English civil wars to the American revolution. That this is specious can be easily demonstrated, but is not germaine here. What is germaine is that it was so readily accepted throughout the English-speaking world of his time, as well as among the Germans and Dutch. Parkman alludes in his otherwise excellent history of the French in North American to the superiority of the racial traits of the English colonists; Mahan makes no such references, but his The Influence of Sea Power Upon History, 1660-1783 provides a long list of Dutch and English "heroes" whose actions upon a watery stage dovetailed nicely with the contention of that superiority. Carlysle's great history of the French Revolution not only repeatedly displays his contempt for the French, it never fails to beat the drum of the superiority of the Anglo-Saxon. (Curiously, Prescott, in his monumental history of the Spanish Conquest and the Spanish monarchy in the days of its glory, comments that the Spaniard and the Frenchmen treated the aboriginals much more humanely than did the Englishmen of New England--perhaps no one clued him in before he wrote.)

In the period before the Second World War, and therefore before the "Cold War," such notions of racial superiority were common enough to have been bread and meat to Americans and Englishmen, and not just for the Germans. Other people, as well, subscribed to that vicious silliness. A few years ago, as i was reading various survey histories of European nations which i was able to find in the local library, i came across one history of Sweden written in the 1930's, which begins with a completely serious discursus by the author on the "proof" he had that the original "Aryans" arose in what is now Sweden, and that these were the forefathers of the Goth. These are all "extra-tribal" theses. These notions seem to me to be tribalism writ large--from clan to tribe, the bigot then proceeded from tribe to nation, and even to a concept of a superior ethnic "race."

I don't believe that tribalism is the inevitable summit of human cultural organization. I also believe that the human race, being a unitary species (there are no races, there is simply the one race--the human race), is capable of going beyond the concept of tribalism, and capable of doing so without a recourse to the invidious concepts which were so eagerly taken up by Ernst Rohm and Adolf Hitler. And within this thread, i think no one has expressed it better than has the Bear: "We can improve though, and we can define ourselves by the effort to overcome this tendency." Would that we someday will so define ourselves.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.1 seconds on 11/05/2024 at 08:01:02