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Will the anti-vaccine group be the next target?

 
 
Reply Tue 22 Feb, 2011 11:30 am
Oregon is about to pass a law that will end the exclusion for faith healing groups in child neglect and abuse cases.

I'm wondering if this will lead to an end to the anti-vaccine crowd getting an exclusion based on their faulty beliefs.

What do you think?
 
PUNKEY
 
  3  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2011 06:50 am
Give me some time. I'm gonna pray on it.
boomerang
 
  2  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2011 07:14 am
@PUNKEY,
Let me know what God has to say about it. He never answers me directly.

Recently there was an article in our newspaper warning people who had been at the airport or on a particular flight or in a few other various places that they might have been exposed to measles.

Whooping cough is really on the rise here too.

There has long been a religious exclusion to vaccines when enrolling a child in school. If religious exclusions to health matters are voided won't that mean kids will have to be vaccinated?
ossobuco
 
  2  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2011 11:15 am
@boomerang,
Yeh, and I've never had whooping cough, nor a vaccine for it. Inquired at my clinic about the vaccine, but they don't carry it..

Good idea for a thread, Boom.
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2011 08:02 pm
@ossobuco,
Well thanks, osso.

I thought it was an interesting idea and I was really curious as to what others thought but I guess they didn't find it so interesting!
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2011 08:09 pm
@boomerang,
It is Ok for a certain percentage of people in a population to not get vaccines. As long as you keep the number of people who aren't vaccinated under the threshold, everyone is protected including the people who didn't get vaccinated.

That complicates the problem a little.
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2011 09:55 pm
@maxdancona,
Okay.... but..... if they do away with religious exemptions for common medical care wouldn't they also have to deny kids entrance to school if they did not have their vaccinations?

Could a parent be guilty of child abuse for not vaccinating their kid?

maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2011 10:01 pm
@boomerang,
I think that charging people with child abuse is a serious thing. It starts a chain of events that is always hurtful to the child. It is sometimes necessary in cases where the damage done by the process is less than the damage done by doing nothing. If this is not the case, than it is clearly best for the child (and everyone else) if this confrontation doesn't happen.

If the number of kids not getting vaccinations is low enough to not be dangerous, it seems like the obvious thing is to leave well enough alone.
0 Replies
 
Ceili
 
  3  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2011 10:01 pm
@boomerang,
I've seen kids with whooping cough. It is child abuse. So is allowing your child to get measles. I feel sorry for the kids but denying them an education is just furthering the abuse. Not giving kids vaccines has become a religion on its own, and the Jenny Mcarthy's of the world should be shut up and publicly denounced, all their so called research has been thoroughly debunked, no matter how much crap they are allowed to write and print.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2011 10:05 pm
@Ceili,
Whether it is child abuse or not is a question of terminology.

The question is whether it is worth hurting a child to punish their parents for their beliefs.
Ceili
 
  2  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2011 10:13 pm
@maxdancona,
Have you ever witnessed a child suffering from a preventable disease? I have, it's pretty awful. However, I don't think kids should be abused further by being prevented from getting an education or associating with other kids, as I stated above. I don't have the answer of what should be done though. There was a time when Jehovah kids were prevented from getting polio vaccines. Parents actually put acid on their arms to mimic the scar left by the vaccine. Many of these children contacted the disease and were left with far worser scars. It was disgusting then and it's just as pathetic now. I'm just not sure how it can be prevented without people going to extremes...one way or the other.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2011 11:06 pm
@Ceili,
Have you seen the damage of kids from broken families? I have, it's also pretty awful.

It is a scientific fact that a certain number of children can go without vaccines with an insignificant effect on themselves or on their peers.This being the case, we can often ignore the few families that have these religious convictions without hurting anyone.

What is wrong with tolerating these religious beliefs in the case where it doesn't hurt the children? In this case why would you even consider the alternative which will undoubtedly hurt the children by separating them from their family?
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Feb, 2011 09:23 am
I'm not saying it's child abuse. I'm just curious about the legal limits of ridding the state of religious exemptions to medical treatment. I agree that it probably isn't necessary for every person to be vaccinated.

There are people who have legitimate medical reasons to not get vaccinated. Those people should obviously not have to get vaccinated.

There's an easy way that people could avoid charges of child abuse -- they can get their kids vaccinated.

The reason Oregon is looking to make these changes is because of a certain church here where a lot of kids have died from easily preventable or treatable illnesses. Vaccinations make certain diseases preventable.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Thu 24 Feb, 2011 07:33 pm
@boomerang,
Do you have a link to the specific story?

Obviously it is in people's interest to avoid charges of child abuse. I am only pointing out that it is also in societies interest to avoid charges of child abuse. After all, it is the children who get hurt by such charges-- so whether it is the parents, or the state's, or both's responsibility doesn't really matter.

In cases where it doesn't make a significant difference, I think people's religious sensibilities should be respected.

There is obviously difficult cases and areas of grey. It is difficult to speak about them without knowing the specific case.

0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  0  
Reply Thu 24 Feb, 2011 11:30 pm
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:

Oregon is about to pass a law that will end the exclusion for faith healing groups in child neglect and abuse cases.

I'm wondering if this will lead to an end to the anti-vaccine crowd getting an exclusion based on their faulty beliefs.

What do you think?


More complicated I'd say...politically.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Mar, 2011 11:31 am
According to today's paper a person who was in the same waiting room as the person infected with measles is now infected.

The newly infected person goes to a small private high school with 126 students. Of those students 13 -- a bit more than 10% -- have not been vaccinated. Those 13 can't attend school and have been asked to avoid public places until March 18th.

10%.

That seems huge. I wonder how that statistic plays out elsewhere in America.
ehBeth
 
  3  
Reply Fri 4 Mar, 2011 12:29 pm
@boomerang,
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=125570056

Quote:
They were "intentionally unvaccinated," meaning their parents had filed Personal Beliefs Exemption forms to opt out of the vaccinations that are required for schoolchildren. Parents of almost 10 percent of the students at Patient Zero's school had signed PBE forms.

That may not sound like much. But no virus is more contagious than measles. "If a measles-infected person walks into a room with 10 uninfected people," says Dr. David Sugerman of the CDC, "nine of them will get infected."
Moreover, anyone who goes into that room within the next two hours after the infected person has left is likely to get measles, too.

So Waters and her colleagues were alarmed when they learned that it had taken a week before the measles infection of Patient Zero was diagnosed. In the meantime, he had exposed many people in doctors offices and clinic waiting rooms, as well as in school. He had also infected his siblings, and they had exposed many others.

"It was slow to be recognized, and there's a good reason for that," Waters says. "We hardly ever see any measles cases. Most doctors have never seen a case." Once the first patient was diagnosed, moreover, health authorities were slow to be notified.

Once they found out, health authorities kicked into gear, tracing everybody who came into contact with the first cases — and everybody who was in contact with them. That net captured people who got exposed (and, in some instances, infected) at supermarkets, circus performances, fairgrounds and a Hawaii-bound airplane.

It added up to 839 people. Of those, 73 were unvaccinated children — 25 whose parents chose not to get them vaccinated, and 48 children under 12 months who were too young to be vaccinated.

maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2011 09:29 am
@ehBeth,
That's interesting, it seems this is not primarily a religious story. I heard the NPR story on the radio.

The problem is that some quack doctor who used to have a prestigious position is pushing a theory that vaccines harm children. This theory picked up famous spokespeople like Jenny McCarthy. And now it won't go away.

It is a mistake to link this to minority religious groups.
0 Replies
 
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2011 10:17 am
@boomerang,
I hope that individuals of the antivaccine crowd ,even if indirectly linked to an outbreak of any preventable disease in the population, no matter how small, be held criminally liable for their inactions.

Time and time again, the studies show that vaccines don't cause autism. And the latest revelation that original study linking vaccines to autism is "an elaborate hoax."
http://www.wired.com/geekdad/2011/02/bill-gates-says-anti-vaccine-autism-groups-kill-children-hes-right/

Study Linking Childhood Vaccine And Autism Was Fraudulent
http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2011/01/06/132703314/study-linking-childhood-vaccine-and-autism-was-fraudulent

Journal Claims Profit Motive Helped Fuel Autism-Vaccine Scare
http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2011/01/12/132857528/journal-claims-profit-motive-helped-fuel-autism-vaccine-scare

Ceili
 
  2  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2011 10:38 am
@tsarstepan,
No, make them pay the costs associated with tracking down all the potential victims, health care costs, closing schools, lost work etc. Why should the rest of society have to pay for their stupidity and thumbing thier noses at convention. If they chose not to immunize their kids, they should be made aware and made to pay for how much this costs society. These disease could potentially be wiped out if not for their arrogance.
0 Replies
 
 

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