34
   

Why the anti-union animosity?

 
 
wayne
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2011 03:51 pm
@Setanta,
I don't disagree with you on any of what you've said, well except, I don't think I said most Americans don't like unions. There is a sector that feels the way I've described. If I said most, I misspoke.

It may be that they resent not having those advantages.
There are some instances occuring of a sort of coalition in the trades.
I don't know if you're familiar with the Blue Dot group among plumbing co.s
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2011 04:17 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
Much more difficult with them - as General Motors, Chrysler, the former U.S. steel and textile producers discovered
There is still some Auto and steel industry, though much less than there used to be and a lot of it is non union now. The textile industry vanished. Coal companies on the other hand never played footsie with the unions, mostly were successful in driving them off (with a lot of help from the government), and is doing great.

Globalization and free trade agreements did a lot of damage to the unions except for government which does not need to compete with labor in other countries. I cant think of a single industry with a strong union presence that has been able to thrive in the current economic environment other than Hollywood, and that is going south now as well.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2011 05:01 pm
http://www.balloon-juice.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/american-federation-of-scapegoats.gif

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2011 05:27 pm
Some home-grown (Australian) observations about state governments & public sector unions ... which may or may not apply to the US, I don’t know for sure.

The weaker public sector unions are, the poorer the quality of public services like education & health tend to be.

Taking the example of education: “productivity-based" bargaining, which short-sighted (I think) education union representatives have accepted under duress as a legitimate form – almost the only one these days - of bargaining with their respective state governments.

Government “productivity gains”, in exchange for overdue wage rises for public sector teachers, have led to a reduction in the number of teachers in the system, the casualization of teachers’ conditions of employment, a huge increase in the workload of the remaining teachers .... & (not at all surprisingly) a further deterioration in the quality of education in public schools. (The same could be said for public health services, which are at crisis point.)

The same voters who have happily accepted the savings to the public purse (lower taxes), also decry the quality of education their children receive. The connection between budget savings & the deterioration of working conditions for teachers (& learning conditions for students) is somehow completely missed in the equation.

The same governments which have instigated the funding cuts in the public sector, then blame the inadequacies of the education system on poor teacher performance & demand that they lift their game, with no acknowledgment of the (now) appalling working conditions in public schools.

There is no doubt that providing quality public education is expensive. But, you get what you pay for, it’s as simple as that.
While the severely weakened unions are forced to limit their negotiations with governments to “productivity savings” sadly I can’t see much hope for much improvement in public schools.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2011 05:36 pm
@djjd62,
Quote:
i don't agree with that either, i think there should be maximum wages as well as minimum wages
Agreed. They are being paid fear money by investors who dont mind spending a small part of their money to feel better about who they hired.

How does anyone justify 5 billion ? That is the equivalent of 170,000 average wage workers for a year .
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  2  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2011 05:37 pm
Just read this lengthy article: The trade union fightback (in the US) in the New Statesman (UK publication)
Very interesting reading.
Here's an extract.
Comments, anyone? :


Quote:
...So, what's behind all of this? In part, it's an insight into the Tea Party's political agenda: weakening the unions in order, perhaps, to see them killed off altogether. In Wisconsin, they're also planning radical measures to weaken state control over health programmes, as well as sending back hundreds of millions of dollars in federal funds intended to contribute towards local infrastructure projects.

Republican leaders say it's all about cutting costs – and state employees should bear their share of the pain. In Ohio, for instance, their average pay is considerably higher than for equivalent private-sector workers, and their benefits and pension rights are far more generous. According to a spokesman for Ohio's governor, John Kasich, there is no hidden politics involved: "This is an effort to save the state, no agendas," he says.

Unions, however, aren't exactly popular. Their support among the general population has declined significantly since their heyday. When Gallup last polled on the issue, around 18 months ago, it found that less than half of all Americans approved of unions, compared to 72 per cent who supported them back in the 1930s. Wisconsin's governor, Scott Walker, claims that his office gets about 1,000 emails a day on the current fight, mostly in support of his measures.

But here's the money question: in a quintessential struggle over the very existence of trade unions and their rights to organise, who benefits – and who pays? The New York Times reveals that the long-time union opponents Charles and David Koch, both billionaires, have been among the biggest financial contributors to Governor Walker's campaign. They also support a conservative group called Americans for Prosperity, which will start running anti-union advertisements in the Badger State over the next few days.

And in last year's gubernatorial elections, guess who raised money for Walker's opponent? That's right – the unions. As the fight for the White House in 2012 looms ever closer, money, power and organisation will be the only priorities in town. Turns out this isn't just a battle over labour rights, after all.


http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2011/02/union-rights-state-walker
hingehead
 
  2  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2011 07:02 pm
Colbert's take on Wisconsin
http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/375040/february-22-2011/a-less-perfect-union

And his interview with union leader Randi Weingarten
http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/375041/february-22-2011/a-less-perfect-union---randi-weingarten

Highly recommended.
georgeob1
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2011 07:13 pm
@msolga,
msolga wrote:

Comments, anyone?


Yeah. Buzz off.
msolga
 
  0  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2011 07:14 pm
@hingehead,
Ha!
All is clear now, courtesy of Colbert.
Very clever & very funny indeed.
Now onto the second video.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  0  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2011 07:23 pm
@georgeob1,
Thank you.
Most informative.
Always the gentleman.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2011 07:38 pm
@msolga,
msolga wrote:

Always the gentleman.


No, not always, but usually. Some very busy and intrusive, authoritarian souls do strain my patience, though. Tell me, do Aussie men put up with you quietly?
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2011 07:50 pm
@georgeob1,
They tend to be much fairer, more mature & not nearly so easily threatened as you might imagine, George.
They also, in my experience, tend not to feel affronted when women hold opinions of their own & express them.

But I was interested in talking about unionism, as you would have seen by my posts above.

And now, I have not the slightest interest in pursuing your petty & irrelevant comments any further.
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2011 08:55 pm
@msolga,
Wow. Now you get a blast for asking for opinions.
georgenob wrote:
busy, intrusive, authoritarian

hinge wrote:
Pots, kettles

msolga
 
  0  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2011 09:02 pm
@msolga,
George, if you have some real problem with workers being unionized & fighting for their rights as workers, it might be more honest for you to tell us what your objections actually are & argue the pros & cons, rather than shooting messengers.
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2011 09:04 pm
@msolga,
gob is management, msO.

he signed a pledge to hate unions to the end.

in blood.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2011 09:24 pm
@hingehead,
Quote:
Wow. Now you get a blast for asking for opinions.

And I am so intimidated , hinge.

I might never ask for the opinions of those concerned ever again!

George has has put me firmly in my place!

A mere woman with the temerity to hold views about the the rights of trade unionism & all ...

And not even living in the US!



hingehead
 
  0  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2011 10:58 pm
@msolga,
Back into the kitchen where you belong (or the sweatshop)
msolga
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2011 11:17 pm
@hingehead,
OK, hinge, I get it now.
I have been out of line.
I will dare not offer any opinion here ever again, about those issues which rightly concern only men, in case George becomes incensed about my temerity to do so! Very Happy
msolga
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2011 11:26 pm
@msolga,
I am sincerely sorry about this digression from very serious concerns about unions in the US.

Blame George for that.

But can we now pick up from where the thread left off before the digression, please?

These are very serious matters for unions in the US.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2011 11:40 pm
@msolga,
From the Bureau of Labor Statistics: Yes, unions help non-union workers with better pay and work conditions, as the following statistics prove.

Quote:
Union Representation

In 2010, 16.3 million wage and salary workers were represented by a union. This group includes both union members (14.7 million) and workers who report no union affiliation but whose jobs are covered by a union contract (1.6 million). (See table 1.) Government employees (783,000) comprised about half of the 1.6 million workers who were covered by a union contract but were not members of a union. (See table 3.)

Earnings

In 2010, among full-time wage and salary workers, union members had median usual weekly earnings of $917, while those who were not represented by unions had median weekly earnings of $717. (See table 2.) In addition to coverage by a collective bargaining agreement, the difference reflects a variety of influences including variations in the distributions of union members and nonunion employees by occupation, industry, firm size, or geographic region.


Simply put, it requires the non-union shops to compete with union workers, and the union pay and benefits are direct competition for non-union jobs. The non-union shop must be more competitive - depending on occupation, industry, firm size, or geographic region, or they will go out of business. In effect, unions help non-union jobs with better pay and benefits to some degree.
 

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