What would life be like if God/god/gods really existed?

just to make it perfectly clear:
...my last post was not about we agreeing or disagreeing with the actual true value of the bible...it was rather about what was the actual intent in the meaning of those who wrote it...in that sense we must distinguish a false pattern from a true one...Occam´s Razor, that is, the most simple possible explanation should be the method.

You are projecting your own stubbornness upon others.



Exactly. So if you are not willing, then you'll find no meaning here. Others may be willing, so let them be and halt the semantics and meta-arguments.

A
R
T

...it just so happens that he wants to impose is view upon others without any argument, and simultaneously accuse them of doing the same, a contradiction in terms...given admittedly rationality is not a requirement in is view I wonder what it is...

You're vantage point is sort of like a 'curse' really. It is something that is always there and cannot be removed regardless of how hard you try.

Anytime you read/hear something, you are always going to take it and use it to 'compare notes' with what you already know. Each party does this and would indicate the pointlessness of the argument in the first place.

Each one has his own un-covering of what he knows to be done, on his own. This bumping into one another like ping pong balls is only going to distract/lead one astray.

If you would like to continue to argue and push your point-of-view at your computer screen that's fine. Just don't expect it to respond for much longer.

You have been predictably responsive.

A
Responsive
T

Really ?

Only technology has changed. Making life easier for some but not for the masses.

It's also allowed killing on a grander scale.

Da Vinci's Code is just an example of how to lie to the gullible to make money . I debated writing a similar book decades ago.....not sure if I made the right decision now.....

By what natural forces did the big bantg occur from within a frame work that had no time and no space ? Was this also the creation of multi-verses ? How rare is life ? What is the process that created life ? You eliminate a God because you have to . Your faith demands it .

You're assuming a personal God and then attacking it . What would be wrong with a God that created the universe and then left us to ourselves ? If time is irrelevant, then why would you care about evolution ? Why cant God have created evolution as a natural process, assuming time is irrelevant to God ?

Believing this requires an act of faith in you that I am not capable of.....I believe the scholars . You are wrong .

As atheists are fond of doing . Clean up your own backyard first, then you can criticise human nature .

I agree but your desperate avoidance of facts because you don't like where they might lead is not helpful .

Nevertheless, I think on an average the religions of the desert have grown up, again depending on the person .

All out nuclear war was avoided . I think that speaks volumes .

I appreciate your sharing some of the fruits of the effort you've put into studying this. I've been a skeptic from my earliest days, just not willing to accept things that don't fit. I have never once been tempted to throw the baby out with the bath water though.

I've grown aware of the fact that most of the religious spend far too much effort pretending to know, and calling that faith. When time would be better spent in understanding what faith really means.

I agree . Many religious are swayed by the person who stands out in front of them every (sun)day . I have debated with some of these new priests and it is my opinion they are for the most part mentally unstable .

There seems to be no shortage of people willing to blindly accept false patterns, rather than face thier own fears.

Facing fear is not that easy . It is in the nature of fear to teach us to avoid it . Armies train people to face fear by repetition and gradual exposure . Not putting people on ignore is a good start for some here .

I think maybe mentally unstable is the default setting for humanbeings in general. A fearless and lifelong search for truth seems to help with changing the setting.

God revealed a holy book to Jesus called the Injeel, some parts of which may be still available in the teachings of God to Jesus in the New Testament. But this does not mean that the Bible we have today because it is not the original scriptures that were revealed by God. They underwent alterations, additions, and omissions. This was also said by the Committee charged with revising The Holy Bible (Revised Standard Version). This Committee consisted of thirty-two scholars who served as members of the Committee. They secured the review and counsel of an Advisory Board of fifty representatives of the co-operating denominations.

The Committee said in the Preface to The Holy Bible (Revised Standard Version), p. iv, “Sometimes it is evident that the text has suffered in transmission, but none of the versions provides a satisfactory restoration. Here we can only follow the best judgment of competent scholars as to the most probable reconstruction of the original text.

The Committee also said in the Preface, p. vii, Notes are added which indicate significant variations, additions, or omissions in the ancient authorities (Mt 9.34; Mk 3.16; 7.4; Lk 24.32, 51, etc.).

You can see that, Christians take their information about Jesus from the Bible, which includes the Old and New Testaments. These contain four biblical narratives covering the life and death of Jesus. They have been written, according to tradition, respectively by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. They are placed at the beginning of the New Testament and comprise close to half of it.

Encyclopedia Britannica notes that "none of the sources of his life and work can be traced to Jesus himself; he did not leave a single known written word. Also, there are no contemporary accounts written of his life and death. What can be established about the historical Jesus depends almost without exception on Christian traditions, especially on the material used in the composition of the Gospels of Mark, Matthew, and Luke, which reflect the outlook of the later church and its faith in Jesus.

The followers of Jesus split up into two sects immediately after the disappearance of Jesus, and one of them eventually eliminated the other. The sect that prevailed followed St Paul, who ingeniously over-ruled many of the fundamental teachings of Jesus. As a result, we have Christianity which preaches Trinity, Original Sin, and Atonement through the suffering and crucifixion of God’s Only Begotten Son etc.

All of the writers of the Bible believed that God was not Jesus. The idea that Jesus is God did not become part of Christian belief until after the Bible was written, and took many centuries to become part of the faith of Christians.

Matthew, Mark, and Luke, authors of the first three Gospels, believed that Jesus was not God (see Mark 10:18 and Matthew 19:17). They believed that he was the son of God in the sense of a righteous person. Many others too, are similarly called sons of God (see Matthew 23:1-9).

Paul, believed to be the author of some thirteen or fourteen letters in the Bible, also believed that Jesus is not God. For Paul, God first created Jesus, then used Jesus as the agent by which to create the rest of creation (see Colossians 1:15 and 1 Corinthians 8:6). Similar ideas are found in the letter to the Hebrews, and also in the Gospel and Letters of John composed some seventy years after Jesus. In all of these writings, however, Jesus is still a creature of God and is therefore forever subservient to God (see 1 Corinthians 15:28).

Now, because Paul, John, and the author of Hebrews believed that Jesus was God’s first creature, some of what they wrote clearly shows that Jesus was a pre-existent powerful being. This is often misunderstood to mean that he must have been God. But to say that Jesus was God is to go against what these very authors wrote. Although these authors had this later belief that Jesus is greater than all creatures, they also believed that he was still lesser than God. In fact, John quotes Jesus as saying: “...the Father is greater than I.” (John 14:28). And Paul declares that the head of every woman is her husband, the head of every man is Christ, and the head of Christ is God (see 1 Corinthians 11:3).

Therefore, to find something in these writings and claim that these teach that Jesus is God is to misuse and misquote what those authors are saying. What they wrote must be understood in the context of their belief that Jesus is a creature of God as they have already clearly said.

So we see then, that some of the later writers had a higher view of Jesus, but none of the writers of the Bible believed that Jesus is God. The Bible clearly teaches that there is only one true God, the one whom Jesus worshipped (see John 17: 3).





The Bible Denies the Divinity of Jesus

The Bible - A Closer Look!
http://www.islamtomorrow.com/bible/

Who Was Jesus According to Jesus?
http://www.islaminfo.com/new/jesus.asp

IS THE BIBLE GODS WORD?
http://www.jamaat.net/bible/Bible1-3.html

The Islamic and Christian views of Jesus: a comparison
http://www.soundvision.com/Info/Jesus/inIslam.asp

THE TRUTH ABOUT JESUS
http://sultan.org/articles/Jesus.html

Christ in Islam
http://home2.swipnet.se/~w-20479/Christ.htm

Mary & Jesus in Quran
http://www.islamworld.net/


None of the Bible’s Writers Believed That Jesus is God
http://www.islam-guide.com/ch3-10-1.htm

Jesus Will Descend at the End of Time
http://www.islaam.com/Article.aspx?id=77

A long and tortuous path, given the constant brainwashing propaganda, like the one posted above..

I agree . . . creeps like that don't pay any attention to the discussion, they just spew their propaganda around regardless . . .

*******************************************

It is especially idiotic to suggest that anyone's religion is responsible for preventing nuclear war--all out or otherwise. "All out" makes no odds when it comes to a thermonuclear exchange.

May I assume, **** for brains, that you are addressing me ? I used the term all out nuclear war to distinguish it from WWII, the first Nuclear War.

Then perhaps you should read some of the history of the Cold War and particularly the levels of exchange that were thought through....at one end of the scale was "all out" .

I dont know what drugs you take but to keep coming back and making a complete fool of yourself....it must be heroin.....or at least morphine.

It is especially idiotic to suggest religion was responsible and I was not suggesting that.....try posting before you shoot up....as it is also especially idiotic to be unable to read and comprehend a post but to sneak in a reply anyway .

You need to do something about your ego . It is way too dependent on putting others down to the point where you go all stupid when you think you have the better of someone . Isnt your dog worshiping you enough ?

It has been my impression that the ones who parrot verse know little about God and even less about being truly religious .

Most of the born again types I have met are emotionally damaged and had really screwed up their lives . Here we have had Mormons being very successful at recruiting young unmarried mothers . Home alone and a knock on the door produces two young men in suits, talking about salvation . Very appealing for lonely young mums .