parados
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Mar, 2011 02:15 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

Not with you.

And who would you bet with?


I'll be more than happy to bankroll them.
georgeob1
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 12 Mar, 2011 02:25 pm
@parados,
I'll be more clear. I think you are a jerk who consumes much more attention than you merit. I wouldn't willingly do anything that was even remotely associated with you.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 12 Mar, 2011 02:48 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
That wouldn't amount to much of a revenge victory for the Democrats.
Even if they get 4 so what? they still will not be able to overturn the law as they can't beat a Walker Veto....I think the Milwaukee Journal had this in mind when they said that this recall is a waste of a lot of time and money. It is highly unlikely, but the best the DEMS can do is gum up Madison so nothing happens for the next two years, though I dont see how the DEMS come out ahead with that. In that video of Ed Rendell that I linked to he was saying that leaders have to make the hard decisions, then have a conversation with the citizens about why they did what they did and then let the chips fall where they may. What Walker did was an example of leadership, it was not a subversion of Democracy.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/video/2011/02/22/VI2011022205142.html
reasoning logic
 
  3  
Reply Sat 12 Mar, 2011 02:54 pm
@hawkeye10,
Your quote: What Walker did was an example of leadership, it was not a subversion of Democracy.


If you can convince the majority of the people to believe this then you will be happy! Reality may not be promising to your happiness!
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sat 12 Mar, 2011 03:12 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
It’s bad enough that Scott Walker has been forcing county workers to take an excessive amount of furlough days, in violation of labor laws and the contract that he had signed. These furloughs are nothing more than mandatory contributions to his campaign. Unfortunately for the tax payers, they could very well end up having to reimburse the workers for the extra days, which will add up to millions of dollars.

But Walker doesn’t care, since he is planning on being gone by the time that hits the fan.

Now we are learning that Walker has added insult to injury to both the workers and the tax payers.

In an “money saving” stunt, Walker ordered his Human Resources director to contract with a temp agency for some extra help. The problem is that the temp that comes to work for the County is unscrupulous. This worker, Starlita L. Sims, is allowed to confidential information about current and former county workers.

She steals this information and gives it to her boyfriend, who is living in a federal halfway house. Said boyfriend then uses this data to commit identity theft of more than 30 workers.

Now, there are some that will argue that the use of a temp agency worker in this matter was simply being cost effective and fiscally responsible.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

The article doesn’t say what steps the county has taken to help the workers who were victimized by these crooks. However, based on what other companies have had to do when something similar happens, the County should be paying for the credit reports and credit checks that need to occur when one’s identity is stolen.

Then there is the cost of the Sheriff’s Office staff that did the investigation and subsequently arrested and booked the two suspects. There is also the cost of housing these two, even if Ms. Sims was released on bail soon after. Plus her boyfriend still remains in the House of Correction.

One then can add up the court costs including the judge, the prosecutor and court staff. Both suspects will also probably qualify for public defenders, who are also paid for with our tax dollars.

If they are found guilty, there is the costs associated with any sentencing they receive, whether or not it includes jail time and/or supervision by a parole/probation officer.

I am sure there are other possible costs, such as if the victims decide to sue the county for failing to protect their identities.

When you add it all up, Walker’s cost cutting measures sure do get expensive.

Posted by Chris Liebenthal on October 20, 2010, at 1:08 am | Tags: Scott Walker | Category: Uncategorized
http://milwaukeecountyfirst.com/?p=2044

If the people of Wisconsin did not know what Walker is all about then that is their own ******* problem. Next time they should pay attention at election time. Walker did not lie to anyone, and he is doing now exactly what anyone should have expected him to do, namely work on cutting the cost of operating government by taking out some of the labor costs.
RABEL222
 
  4  
Reply Sat 12 Mar, 2011 07:00 pm
@hawkeye10,
He is working on breaking the unions so he can sell the state to big industry.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sat 12 Mar, 2011 07:45 pm
@RABEL222,
Quote:
He is working on breaking the unions so he can sell the state to big industry
so you are arguing that he thinks that the citizens will conclude that breaking labor is a forgivable sin if he can drive jobs....which might be correct...
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Sat 12 Mar, 2011 08:18 pm
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:

He is working on breaking the unions so he can sell the state to big industry.


There is no more "big industry" left in the midwest. They companies all died of union sclerosis.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sat 12 Mar, 2011 09:06 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
There is no more "big industry" left in the midwest. They companies all died of union sclerosis.
Wisconsin suffers greatly because Milwaukee is a dying city, a situation that was brought on in part because the state was hostile to business for a long time, but also because of long running (since the late sixties) social problems in Milwaukee that never got fixed (as was the situation in Detroit). The city has become a magnet for poor minorities as middle class whites who could leave did leave, opening up cheap housing.
http://media.journalinteractive.com/images/CENSUS11G11.jpg
Quote:
After decades of population decline, the city population has basically stabilized over the past 10 years as a result of major growth in the Hispanic population and the continuing, though modest, growth in the African-American population, which balances off the declining white population, said Margo Anderson, professor of history and urban studies at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee.
After decades of population decline, the city population has basically stabilized over the past 10 years as a result of major growth in the Hispanic population and the continuing, though modest, growth in the African-American population, which balances off the declining white population, said Margo Anderson, professor of history and urban studies at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee.

reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Mar, 2011 09:15 pm
@hawkeye10,
I wonder if you think society will share your same concept 60 years from now?
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sat 12 Mar, 2011 10:08 pm
@hawkeye10,
By that I assume you mean that the poor immigrants will revitalize the city....something that has not happened in the nearly 50 years that Milwaukee has had this problem. The racial situation that blew up in the late 60's was brought on by a great migration of blacks into the city in the late 50's looking for factory jobs (and getting them)
Quote:
The most rapid growth in Milwaukee's African American population, however, occurred between 1956 and 1960 when the community grew from 22,000 to 62,000.
http://www4.uwm.edu/libraries/digilib/Milwaukee/records/picture.cfm

and the black increase has continued

1980 23%
1990 30%
2000 37%
2001 39%

http://city.milwaukee.gov/ImageLibrary/Groups/cityDCD/planning/data/pdfs/UrbanAtlasPopulation.pdf

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/117756803.html

And now poor hispanics are rushing in to take the very low wage hospitality jobs in Milwaukee, as the state becomes much more hispanic (growing 75% 2000-2010) as they take the laborious and now low paying jobs in the dairy and meat packing industries. You see the hispanics doing much the same thing in Iowa, as they have taken over a huge chunk of the meatpacking industry jobs there...allowing the meatpacking industry to lower pay substantially.

http://www.dairyherd.com/dairy-news/latest/Census-Wisconsins-Hispanic-population-up-74--117801663.html


But back to Milwaukee.......50 years of increasing black and immigrant flight to Milwaukee and white flight out have yet to produce a renaissance....Milwaukee, like Detroit, keeps rotting....
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Mar, 2011 10:26 pm
@hawkeye10,
The missing link to the post with the population chart

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/117756803.html

And I will add, as a long time observer of Wisconsin...the last few weeks have looked to me like the last gasp of Wisconsin liberals, who have been in a state that is under massive change and under massive decline of the good job base even as the immigrants flood in to take low to very low wage work. That is where the slogan "save the unions, save the middle class" comes from, because as the private sector job situation is turned grim and as Milwaukee has been on its long death march a great deal of the middle class jobs have vanished. Government jobs are now a huge chunk of the good paying jobs in the state. Each of the last few recessions have hammered the state, and during the "recovery" they never get back to where they were before. Wisconsin is a state in big trouble, which accounts for the desperate measures we see on both sides of the Collective bargaining debate...

It also accounts for the grand dreams that we have seen out of politicians during the last decade, as they rush to try to save the state. A big one was linking Milwaukee with Chicago with High Speed Rail, trying to piggy back on Chicago, which is somewhat better off than Milwaukee, and trying to build a modern infrastructure between the two cities so that people and jobs will want to be located there..
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Mar, 2011 11:22 pm
@hawkeye10,
In 1980 Wisconsin income per capita was 98.6% of the US average, by 2009 that had dropped to 94.1%. There is no doubt in my mind but that Wisconsin faired much worse than average after 2009 in the great recession, and keep in mind the income per capital loss lags job loss to some degree because even after the jobs are gone often someone is drawing deferred income from a lost job until they die....the loss of income from that job lost does not fully kick until the death of the ex-worker, thus the situation is worse than these numbers indicate.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104652.html
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Mar, 2011 03:08 am
@hawkeye10,
And more..putting together date from these two spots
https://edis.commerce.state.nc.us/docs/countyProfile/WI/55079.pdf
http://www.choosemilwaukee.com/milwaukeecounty.aspx

we see that 1990-2008 Milwaukee County lost

6k or .6% population
21,268 or 4% of the jobs
37,754 or 39% of the manufacturing jobs

BUT ADDED GOVERNMENT PAYROLL

And none of the top ten private employers make anything.


However, we also see that 4Q10 post Great recession the employment dropped to 420.071

So we have

1990 518,047
2000 529,031
2008 496,779
2010 420, 071

HOUSTON, WE HAVE A PROBLEM HERE!

The county has dropped 98 THOUSAND or 19% of the jobs but only 6K or .6% of the population, and with this much lower economic activity it is supporting an INCREASE in government workforce.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Mar, 2011 03:12 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:

The Sky is Falling, Says Scott Walker

by Bruce Murphy | Tuesday 5/16/2006
Call it the “gloom and doom tour.” That’s what Journal Sentinel reporter Steve Schultze jokingly dubbed it, according to Scott Walker . The county executive has been playing Chicken Little, running around Milwaukee warning that the sky is falling. No wonder he wanted to flee to Madison.
It’s difficult to take Walker’s dire projections at face value because he has loaded the deck in every negative way, assuming annual increases in health insurance costs of nearly 20%, no increase in the contribution to health insurance by employees or retirees, no cut in the number of employees, a continuing drop in sales tax income and a drop in state-federal aid. It’s quite unlikely that all of this will come true and completely impossible if Walker provides some proactive leadership.

But Walker’s power point presentation, officially called “The Reality Tour,” doesn’t offer any real solutions. After hammering home how dreadful things are, suggesting that the county is nearly broke while noting it can’t go legally bankrupt, he asks us unlucky duckies to support, well, what? Walker doesn’t say. When asked it he had costed out some possible solutions, Walker said no.

There are times when Walker seems not like the county executive but the anti-county executive. This is the man who called Milwaukee and the six other counties of southeastern Wisconsin a pig. Walker said the effort to promote its economy was unlikely to succeed, declaring, “You can put lipstick on a pig, but it’s still a pig.”

Tommy Thompson used the bully pulpit to tell us how great Wisconsin was. Mayor Tom Barrett calls cheerleading for Milwaukee a key part of his job. Scott Walker’s style is to blacken the reputation of the county he runs.

Yes, it’s disgusting to see the kind of pensions some county employees have gained. But they appear to be legally protected (not that Walker’s administration ever put much effort into researching its legal options on this issue). So at what point do you quit bellyaching and start making improvements?

The fact is the County Board has passed considerable legislation to roll back benefits (most of this before Walker was elected), and there has been some progress working with the employee unions. Two-thirds of the current employees are no longer eligible for lifetime health insurance and few remaining employees will ever see a big back drop payment because the retirement age was moved back to 55. More recently, Walker and the board restructured the health insurance plan so that employees and retirees have an economic incentive to choose a plan that costs the county less.

Are there other things that can be done? Of course. The county might ape the City of Milwaukee, which got its unions to agree to require out-of-state retirees to contribute more to their health insurance coverage. The county might join the state prescription drugs pool. Walker might go to city officials and the business community (which is also getting killed by the cost of healthcare in greater Milwaukee) and push for a public/private effort to address the problem.
Walker’s entire approach to governing has always been short-term, given his intention to run for governor. Thus he has refused to raise property taxes enough to fully fund the pension plan, in defiance of actuarial recommendations. This means citizens will someday have to repay not only the several years worth of pension contributions that should have been made, but the compounded stock market return on the money (about 8% per year) because the money wasn’t invested in a timely manner.

There’s no doubt the county faces tremendous challenges. It may have to consider selling some asset (a sale of the airport is already being floated), it may need to petition the state for permission to raise the sales tax

and it must find every way to cut costs. But it doesn’t help to run around town exaggerating the crisis while offering no plan to solve it.
http://www.milwaukeemagazine.com/murphyslaw/default.asp?NewMessageID=11168

And here we are almost five years later and Walker is saying the exact same things about government finances.....you gotta give the boy points for consistency.... and for being ahead of the power curve. Lots of people are talking like that now, back then he was a freak.
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Sun 13 Mar, 2011 05:19 am
@hawkeye10,
It took 8 years of his party economic mismaneagement to product the conditions to made him 'right" in the short term.

Even then it is a minor shortfall that the unions was more then willing to grant give backs to deal with.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Mar, 2011 09:30 am
Martial Law in Michigan and Republicans’ End Game
March 10, 2011
By Cassandra Vert



While we were venting our outrage at shenanigans in Wisconsin politics, in fact while Republicans were planning last night’s attempted coup, the Michigan state legislature quietly passed a bill giving the Governor of Michigan martial control over the state. Except instead of using actual military, the Governor is more likely to use private security. But make no mistake–rights would be suspended.

Here’s how it works:

The governor, on his own initiative, can declare an economic emergency in any town and appoint an administrator. The administrator can be any person, including a corporate person.

The administrator has the power to do anything in the name of economic stability, including void contracts, void collective bargaining agreements, dissolve the town council, dissolve the school board, fire anyone including elected officials, hire private security, unincorporate the town, and sell off public property.

The people of the town have no say in this. They can neither demand nor turn away the administrator. That is because this provision is meant to be used against the people.

What might constitute an emergency in the Governor’s eyes?

A labor strike is the first thing that comes to mind. Too many foreclosures. Crime! In short, anything he wants it to be–and with billionaire backers, any controversy can be created.

What might the administrator do in that emergency?

First, privatize everything. Fire public workers and take over all public functions–running schools, police and fire service, and so on. Michigan just made this legal.



Second, imprison dissidents, shutter businesses, and seize property by eminent domain. This is not legal, but hey, that didn’t stop the Wisconsin Republicans.

In short, take over control and turn it into a corporate town.



We need to pay attention to Michigan because they are farther along the road to corporate statehood–to where the Republicans want to take all of us.

Other things you should know:

–The outnumbered Democrats in Michigan tried to add an amendment that the administrator’s could be paid no more than the governor, but that was voted down. All the better to drain the public treasury.

Michigan voted to increase taxes on the poor and elderly. What little property they own will belong to the government soon.

–Michigan voted to disallow charitable tax deductions for donations to universities. When universities depend more on public money, it is much easier for the government to control them. Universities liberalize people, so they must be changed.

–Finally, people have been leaving Michigan in droves due to its poor economy. If there had been no auto bailout–and it was hotly contested even by non-corporatists–there would be ghost towns all over the state. As it is, there are large ghost neighborhoods. These empty public nuisances are ripe for corporate ownership.

This is the Republicans’ end game: drain public entities of assets, privatize, turn what’s left over to corporations to run. In the running, they will use onerous taxation or find other ways to take away ownership of what is now privately held.

Corporations will control the government, and between the two of them, they will own all property. And there will be nary a peep in the bulk of the media because the corporations control that too.

We can stop this, and the protests that started in Wisconsin are the way to start. It may get uglier before it gets better, but we can take our country back.

plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Mar, 2011 09:37 am
@plainoldme,
I wonder if people like okie and ican are not what they seem but are part of the subversion of America. Certainly, okie's rewriting of political theory and philosophy as well as his revisionist version of mid-20th C. history is redolent of Nineteen Eighty-Four. For years, many on these boards and their predecessors on abuzz dismissed okie as "just plain dumb." Well, is he dumb or evil? Or, perhaps, not evil, but a tool of those who work to end democracy. The workers against the common man have already concentrated the wealth -- make that the well-being -- of this country in the hands of a few. How long before voices like Cassandra's (this name could be a pseudonym) are silenced?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Mar, 2011 11:25 am
@plainoldme,
He's dumb, because he doesn't understand he's also evil. He's become the parrot for the GOP and FOX News without any regards to what conservatism used to mean in this country. They want laws to discriminate and destroy minorities, immigration, and labor, the very strengths that created this country into what it used to be about thirty years ago. They're doing a great job destroying the middle class and this country.

Go, go, GOP! Hope you succeed, because you'll be hurting too with the other 90% of Americans.
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Mar, 2011 06:35 am
@plainoldme,
Quote:
The governor, on his own initiative, can declare an economic emergency in any town and appoint an administrator. The administrator can be any person, including a corporate person.

The administrator has the power to do anything in the name of economic stability, including void contracts, void collective bargaining agreements, dissolve the town council, dissolve the school board, fire anyone including elected officials, hire private security, unincorporate the town, and sell off public property.

The people of the town have no say in this. They can neither demand nor turn away the administrator. That is because this provision is meant to be used against the people.

This is outrageous, why are there not any protest about it?

What might constitute an emergency in the Governor’s eyes?

A labor strike is the first thing that comes to mind. Too many foreclosures. Crime! In short, anything he wants it to be–and with billionaire backers, any controversy can be created.

 

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