Wrestlin' in Wisconsin

Your statements on this matter are somewhat colored by the fact that you are one of A2K's most notorious union-haters. You bash them reflexively and seem to consider them to be one step up from scum. Hard to think that what we are looking at here is a measured view of the situation - which is why I ask you to provide evidence to back up your argument.

Cycloptichorn

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Your statements on this matter are somewhat colored by the fact that you are one of A2K's most notorious union-haters. You bash them reflexively and seem to consider them to be one step up from scum. Hard to think that what we are looking at here is a measured view of the situation - which is why I ask you to provide evidence to back up your argument.

Cycloptichorn

I bash unions only thoughtfully and only after years of experience dealing with them. In nature intelligent & successful parasites don't kill their hosts. Unions are greedy, stupid parasites. They have killed nearly every U.S. industry in which they have achieved a dominant position. Now they are killing local government, public education and public finances.

Their only saving virtue is that they frequently overplay their hand. Hopefully this is happening now.

*** The physics of American politics: The situation in Wisconsin is also another reminder that Newton's third law of motion -- for every action there's an equal and opposite reaction -- applies to American politics. When George W. Bush, after winning re-election, tried to partially privatize Social Security in early 2005, he woke up a despondent Democratic base. When Barack Obama, at the height of his popularity, decided to take on health care, the Tea Party and an energized GOP rose to combat it. And now the physics of politics is playing out in Wisconsin, where Democrats and organized labor are resisting new Gov. Scott Walker's (R) effort to strip state workers of their collective bargaining rights. The question to ponder in Wisconsin -- as well as in the battlegrounds of Ohio and Florida, or in the Capitol Hill fight over Planned Parenthood -- is whether these combative efforts end up energizing Democrats as we head into 2012. After all, there is probably not a more unifying force than being out of power.

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I would bet at this point that Walker wins concessions from the Unions in terms of pension reductions and contributions to health care plans, but fails in his attempt to legislate them out of existence.

Cycloptichorn

Far more accurate to say that Greed killed these industries, both on the parts of management and on union leaders. You seem to think that management is helpless in the face of union demands. But they are not.

Cycloptichorn

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Far more accurate to say that Greed killed these industries, both on the parts of management and on union leaders. You seem to think that management is helpless in the face of union demands. But they are not.

Cycloptichorn

Possibly. However greed is a universal fact of human nature, and the failure of such industries is very strongly correlated with their infestation with labor unions. Are we to believe that the non union (or offshore sited) industries in this country are led by non greedy managers and staffed by non greedy workers?

Let's look at an example of that: Sam's Club, Walmart's bulk outlet - vs. Costco. Costco pays its' employees far more than Sam's and offers health insurance as well, whereas Walmart typically does not. So it's inherently going to be less profitable than Sam's on the same volume of sales. However, Costco has grown tremendously and is a very successful company at this point.

This is in large part because of their investment in their workforce and conscious decision to accept lower profit margins than their competitors. Because of this they will also get less investors - my (old) financial adviser said 'they're a dog, stay away from them.'

Can Costco be described as 'less greedy' than companies who do everything possible to maximize profit? I think that would be an accurate way to describe it. Their success in the face of large, well-financed competition who has a 'more competitive' business structure shows, I believe, that it is completely possible to run businesses in today's America while respecting the concept that all workers matter, and that everyone's contribution is worth a both a living wage and respect.

Cycloptichorn

Camera crews capture a rally organized in support of Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker outside the State Capitol building Saturday, Feb. 19, 2011. Ongoing demonstrations, organized following release of the governor's budget relief bill, have drawn national media attention. JOHN HART - State Journal