Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2011 05:22 pm
@DrewDad,
From the same source:

Quote:
Walker Talking

Gov. Walker is on TV now discussing the situation in the state and everything he's talking about is givebacks from the state's public sector unions. But what he doesn't seem to be saying anything about is ending collective bargaining rights. Which is what the fight is actually about. He won't be candid about the entire battle is about. Just not honest.

--Josh Marshall


That's the thing that really gets me here - the fundamental dishonesty of the entire situation.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2011 05:23 pm
I heard an interview with one of the Republican asemblymen (vs senator) who said that the end run on collective bargaining is because the state isn't going to be able to fund the county/community needs the way it has in the past and they want to head off calls for strikes at the local level.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2011 05:27 pm
@JPB,
JPB wrote:

I heard an interview with one of the Republican asemblymen (vs senator) who said that the end run on collective bargaining is because the state isn't going to be able to fund the county/community needs the way it has in the past and they want to head off calls for strikes at the local level.


Once again this is fundamentally dishonest. The Dem-led legislature closed a budget gap that was more than TWICE as big as the projected one for the next biannual cycle, with no removal of collective bargaining rights.

Not that I expect them to come out and say 'we hate unions, mostly because they support our opponents.'

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2011 07:59 pm
Tennesse is next.

Joe(then, you name it)Nation
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2011 08:02 pm
@Joe Nation,
Ohio

Cycloptichorn
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2011 08:04 pm
Meaningful news from a local station:

Quote:
@news3jessica Jessica Arp

Before adjourning, Republicans rescinded their vote to go to final passage, making the bill now amendable again
.


She's referring to the Assembly - the Senate still lacks a quorum.

Signs of possible negotiations?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2011 05:44 am
@JPB,
Quote:
I heard an interview with one of the Republican asemblymen (vs senator) who said that the end run on collective bargaining is because the state isn't going to be able to fund the county/community needs the way it has in the past and they want to head off calls for strikes at the local level.


Public unions never had the 'right" to strike however by blocking collective bargaining you are leaving very little but for unions to strikes illegally.
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2011 07:36 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Yes, Ohio......and here in New York City there is a big fight brewing over teacher tenure, mostly because the powers always prefer to get rid of the workers earning the most.
Joe(going to be an interesting year)Nation
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2011 09:27 am
Noam Chomsky on Reagan's Distorted Legacy, Wisconsin Protests & Obama's Activist Crackdown. 1 of 2


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFRadCGY_ao&feature=related
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2011 09:54 am
I have two questions to ask:

The first is why is Wisconsin broke and how did it become insolvent?

The second is why do a few think they have the right to deprive the several of what is essentially a First Amendment right?

I will also answer the first in a policy way: We have, as a nation, put all our financial eggs into the basket of heavy industry and have neglected other policies (such as a tax structure that encourages small family size) and alternate forms of employment, business and industry.

As for the second, that is a long time problem of a class of people here in this nation who fail to realize that when two rights are in conflict, one is not a right and that Western style democracy is built upon everyone surrendering some rights to the greater good.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2011 10:12 am
@plainoldme,
Nonsense Wisconsin is not broke and there is no real budget shortfalls it all is a excuse to destroy the middler class and unions.
reasoning logic
 
  0  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2011 10:26 am
@plainoldme,
I thought that Western style democracy was built upon capitalism and profits come before people and as a result civilizations will always fall.


panzade
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2011 10:27 am
Florida!

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/187988_183133285056947_3642865_n.jpg
http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/pages/Recall-Florida-Governor-Rick-Scott/183133285056947
0 Replies
 
panzade
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2011 10:28 am
@reasoning logic,
You can't use logic when discussing the relationship between unions and capitalism.
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2011 11:47 am
@BillRM,
You're probably right.

The Media Education Foundation has a great hour-long film on television's role in destroying the middle class.

However, a basic understanding of how social and political systems work would help.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2011 11:49 am
@reasoning logic,
When the idea of western style democracy was formed, capitalism had barely begun.

Democracy is a philosophical system, built upon the idea of shared rights.
reasoning logic
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2011 11:57 am
@panzade,
Why can't you? The union in this case seems to be a social uprising against a failed system.

I wonder how long it will be until we also privatize the police, firemen and the teachers. You can decide which police force or fire depart responds to your emergency. You can call 911 811 or 666 if you like!

I find it odd," how taboo the word socialism is! Is it bad that we see a need for us to come together, work collectively as a union so that there is no monopoly able to take from us Land, resources and the labor that we have shared.

I do think this is a ethical problem and we are all at fault! We need to stop the division among us and become a more social being.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2011 12:02 pm
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_a05349be-3be1-11e0-b0a1-001cc4c002e0.html

The latest out of Wisconsin is that the two big public employee unions say they're willing to accept the givebacks contained in Gov. Walker's budget. Apparently all of them. But they refuse to budge on their collective bargaining rights. They say this has been their position all along.

Gotta keep in mind that the first thing the Gov tried to do was completely de-certify the unions. His original intention was to get rid of them completely and have real bloodletting. Until he figured out he didn't have the legal right to do that.

Gives the lie to the idea that this has anything to do with money at all. It's an ideological assault by a newly-elected Governor and they are right to resist him.

Cycloptichorn

georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2011 12:18 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Oh, I am confident it has a lot to do with money. I'll also agree that de-certifying public employee unions is one of his goals, even independent of the current financial crisis. It was the corrupting influence of these unions on the legislative process that inflated the costs of the ever less effective schools and bureaucracies they pretend to support. Even if the current financial crisis is solved, the continuation of this corrupting influence will create another one later on.

If it is true that the Wisconsin unions are now saying they will accept the rollbacks of pay and benefits called for by the state Republicans, this is likely a desperate attempt to save what they can in a losing situation. It is interesting to recall that their initial reactions and the ever present signs and chants of their organized demonstrators had everything to do with current pay and benefits.
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2011 12:34 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

Oh, I am confident it has a lot to do with money. I'll also agree that de-certifying public employee unions is one of his goals, even independent of the current financial crisis. It was the corrupting influence of these unions on the legislative process that inflated the costs of the ever less effective schools and bureaucracies they pretend to support. Even if the current financial crisis is solved, the continuation of this corrupting influence will create another one later on.


An evidence-less assertion. The Democrats closed a budget gap more than twice as large as the one Walker is facing over the next two years, and they did so without removing the rights of workers to self-organize.

Your statements on this matter are somewhat colored by the fact that you are one of A2K's most notorious union-haters. You bash them reflexively and seem to consider them to be one step up from scum. Hard to think that what we are looking at here is a measured view of the situation - which is why I ask you to provide evidence to back up your argument.

Quote:
If it is true that the Wisconsin unions are now saying they will accept the rollbacks of pay and benefits called for by the state Republicans, this is likely a desperate attempt to save what they can in a losing situation. It is interesting to recall that their initial reactions and the ever present signs and chants of their organized demonstrators had everything to do with current pay and benefits.


I seem to recall that their initial reactions had everything to do with the removal of the right to self-organize, and of the attempt to make them re-certify every year. Here's a great example for YOU to provide evidence of a claim that YOU just made. I won't hold my breath.

Cycloptichorn
 

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