georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Jun, 2012 05:11 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

I'm not totally wrong. Here's the first paragraph of a Wiki article on the subject.
Agreed. In fact you were right about the Harvard professor. Thanks.

0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Wed 6 Jun, 2012 10:47 pm
Quote:
By siding with public employees in the state and local budget disputes, the national Democratic Party is playing with dynamite. Voters are sometimes willing to accept new taxes to purchase shared public benefits such as roads or schools. But even in liberal California cities, voters are reluctant to raise tax revenues to transfer directly to the retirement benefits of a middle-class interest group. So public-sector unions seek to channel resources away from education, parks and libraries into pensions — making public unions a major obstacle to the adequate provision of public services. This is a losing political proposition in Wisconsin, California or just about anywhere else in the country.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/michael-gerson-democrats-are-playing-with-dynamite/2012/06/06/gJQAwDdbJV_story.html?hpid=z2

Is there any chance that the WS DEMS have figured out yet that they bet on a losing horse....one that was always going to lose, and that Walker a few years ago picked the winning horse and rode it like a champ to ROCKSTAR status?

Prob not.

They should have made a show of resistance but gone along with the REPUB plan to give the public unions a massive haircut.

OOPS!


parados
 
  2  
Reply Thu 7 Jun, 2012 07:41 am
@hawkeye10,
We won't know how it plays out until 2014 or perhaps later this year in WI.

Lost in the Governors race is the fact that the Dems won one of the recall elections for Senate and the GOP no longer has a majority of that body at least until the Nov elections.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jun, 2012 02:12 pm
@parados,
I don't think it was lost at all: I saw it reported in all the news sources I frequent. Frankly the enormous gap between the actual vote and the overbearing bragging and threats from union advocates and their slavish Democrat supporters overwhelmed everything else in the public reaction.

Look back at the boastful threats from the union claques over a year ago and consider the following facts - the union legislation stands; AFSCME & AFT dues paying membership in the state is down by more than half and still falling, based on voluntary choices made by individual members; the Wisconsin budget deficit has been eliminated without any increase in taxation, and its economy is doing better that that in neighboring Illinois; public awareness of the role of public sector unions in forwarding the growing financial crises in state and local governments across the country is at a new high.

There's not much room there for claims of success on your part.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jun, 2012 02:29 pm
@georgeob1,
There hasn't been a lot of discussion of the Senate seat won, as the term is over for the year and there won't be any votes before the next election in November; at which time the Senate is likely to switch back the other way, thanks to some very aggressive gerrymandering on the part of the state GOP.

Cycloptichorn
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jun, 2012 03:17 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
That's interesting. I wasn't aware of the timing, but it does explain an observable lacf of discussion on the subject.

Gerrymandering is the normal behavior of majority incumbents of both parties, more or less equally. The Democrats in California had perfected the process until the citizens in referenda over the last three years took the power away fron the Legilature.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jun, 2012 03:50 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

That's interesting. I wasn't aware of the timing, but it does explain an observable lacf of discussion on the subject.

Gerrymandering is the normal behavior of majority incumbents of both parties, more or less equally. The Democrats in California had perfected the process until the citizens in referenda over the last three years took the power away fron the Legilature.


Oddly enough, it's the CA state GOP who is trying to overturn the referendum you are talking about - they are as displeased with the results brought about by the independent commission as they were with the previous job the legislature was doing.

For perfection of gerrymandering, take a look at Texas - they have the most bizarre districts ever.

One way or another, the state senator victory was nice for the Dems, but mostly meaningless.

Cycloptichorn
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jun, 2012 04:03 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
I don't doubt what you wrote about the GOP in California. The self-serving maneuvering and complaining is about the same in both parties. I'm aware of some of the Texas Shenanigans. However, I suspect they're not alone. I've had occasion to look at congressional district maps of Michigan, Colorado, Georgia and Pennsylvania. There are some very strange and convoluted shapes there too.

The senatorial victory in Wisconsin may have no specific impact on votes, but it does indicate pretty reliably a level of support that may be manifest in the coming election - it's an indicator at least as good (probably better) than the polls you are so fond of.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jun, 2012 04:11 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

I don't doubt what you wrote about the GOP in California. The self-serving maneuvering and complaining is about the same in both parties. I'm aware of some of the Texas Shenanigans. However, I suspect they're not alone. I've had occasion to look at congressional district maps of Michigan, Colorado, Georgia and Pennsylvania. There are some very strange and convoluted shapes there too.

The senatorial victory in Wisconsin may have no specific impact on votes, but it does indicate pretty reliably a level of support that may be manifest in the coming election - it's an indicator at least as good (probably better) than the polls you are so fond of.


The district in question was re-written to be significantly more likely to elect a conservative, more's the pity. The Dem will face an uphill battle in three months.

We should get rid of gerrymandering by just dividing the entire country into 40x40 mile squares...

Cycloptichorn
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jun, 2012 04:16 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Voting districts are based on population.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jun, 2012 04:20 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:

Voting districts are based on population.


True enough, but I'm sure Cyclo would readily agree to uniformly shaped boxes of roughly equal population (and I suspect that's what he meant anyway).

Nitpicking again.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jun, 2012 04:30 pm
@georgeob1,
So do we make the boxes the shape of North Dakota, Delaware or Vermont?
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jun, 2012 05:40 pm
@parados,
Colorado. It's square
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Jun, 2012 07:57 am
@roger,
So Vermont can't be a voting district then because it isn't square?
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Jun, 2012 08:09 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
There hasn't been a lot of discussion of the Senate seat won, as the term is over for the year and there won't be any votes before the next election in November; at which time the Senate is likely to switch back the other way, thanks to some very aggressive gerrymandering on the part of the state GOP.


Let's hear it for Gerry: Hip Hip, HURRAH!! hIP hIP, hurrah!!!!

0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Jun, 2012 08:56 am
@parados,
Parts of it are very square. Those parts can have a vote.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Jun, 2012 09:07 am
@roger,
Isn't some of it hip?
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Jun, 2012 09:16 am
@ossobuco,
Hipsters can vote twice Cool
0 Replies
 
jpinMilwaukee
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jun, 2012 10:33 am
I know I'm a little late to the party, but....

God Bless still Gov. Walker.
God Bless Balanced budgets.
God Bless lowered property taxes.
God Bless a small handfull of Union Thugs that got exactly what they deserved.

It's good to be a WI citizen again.
0 Replies
 
jpinMilwaukee
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jun, 2012 10:34 am
ps... Hi everybody!
 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2019 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 12/10/2019 at 06:06:24