hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2011 10:16 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
hawk listening to FOX News - their primary and only "news" channel
I dont watch FOX, I dont watch any of them, as I am a reformed cable news junkie. I dont even use the FOX internet site.
parados
 
  3  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2011 06:39 am
@hawkeye10,
But you still manage to be as uninformed as a Fox viewer it seems.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2011 09:41 am
Big movement today!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110309/ap_on_re_us/us_wisconsin_budget_unions

Quote:
Wis. gov. floats union compromise, but no deal yet

By SCOTT BAUER, Associated Press Scott Bauer, Associated Press – Wed Mar 9, 3:40 am ET

MADISON, Wis. – Two of the 14 Senate Democrats who fled Wisconsin to block a vote on stripping most bargaining rights for public workers say Republican Gov. Scott Walker's proposed compromise isn't enough to bring them back to the Capitol, although they'll keep talking.

"I'm more than willing to continue to work through this if there is willingness on the other side," Sen. Bob Jauch, one of the 14 AWOL Democrats, said Tuesday.

His Democratic colleague, Sen. Tim Cullen, said he considers "the lines of communication still open."

According to e-mails released by Walker's office, he proposed a compromise Sunday night that would allow public workers to bargain over their salaries with no limit — a change from his original plan that banned negotiated salary increases beyond inflation. He further softened his stance by agreeing to let collective bargaining to stay in place on mandatory overtime, performance bonuses, hazardous duty pay and classroom size for teachers.

Senate Republicans spent hours talking about the offer behind closed doors, and Democrats who helped broker the deal said that while it didn't go far enough for them, it serves as a blueprint for further talks that could lead to a deal.

The plan shows a softened stance for Walker. His original plan would eliminate nearly all collective bargaining for state workers and force concessions amounting to an 8 percent pay cut on average.

The increased contributions for health insurance and pension, which would save the state $330 million by mid-2013, would remain. The unions and Democrats have agreed to those concessions to help balance a projected $3.6 billion budget shortfall.

The e-mails show that Jauch had wanted even more items to be subject to bargaining that Walker seeks to eliminate, including sick leave and vacation pay.

Walker has repeatedly said that he would not budge on the key parts of the bill that's been stymied in the Senate after Democrats left. Since then, the pressure to deal has increased as protests reached as large as 80,000 people, polls show the public want a compromise and recall efforts were launched against 16 senators, including eight Republicans.

Some of the items in Walker's compromise plan could only be bargained if both sides agree to take them up. Workplace safety would be subjected to bargaining regardless.

Walker also proposed allowing collective bargaining agreements to last up to two years, instead of the one-year limit in his original proposal. Unions would only have to vote to remain in existence every three years, instead of annually as Walker initially proposed.

Additionally, University of Wisconsin Hospital and Clinics Authority employees would not lose all union bargaining rights and the Legislature's budget committee would have to vote to approve any changes to Medicaid programs sought by Walker's administration. Under the original bill, the Department of Health Services could make cuts and other changes to programs benefiting the poor, elderly and disabled without requiring a hearing or vote by the legislative committee.

The elimination of automatic union dues withdrawal from public workers' pay would remain, as Walker originally proposed.

Senate Republicans spent hours going over the compromise plan Tuesday morning in a closed-door meeting, Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald said. He acknowledged that pressure was increasing on the senators, saying the recall efforts launched against eight Republicans was "on everybody's minds."

"Everybody's obviously receiving a lot of pressure," Fitzgerald said. "I had people on my front porch before I left this morning."

He didn't say whether Senate Republicans agreed with the concessions Walker proposed on Sunday said support for the underlying bill remained strong.

"We're rock solid, we're fine," he said.


Here are the emails -

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/us/20110308-email-exchange.pdf

Walker and the Senate Republicans are beginning to crack. The recall effort has them scared. So they are moving to fallback plans of compromise. The Dems ought to keep pushing them for a little bit more, then do the deal.

IF the Dems win this one, it will represent a major victory - not just for unions in WI but for supporters of labor across the nation. And it will be an emotional victory for Democrats. Can't help but think that it will be a moral defeat for Republicans as well, who had predicted that not only would Walker win, but that this anti-union wave would spread to many other states.

It's pretty clear now that THAT isn't going to happen.

One side effect of this whole thing? Those of us Dems who actively campaigned for Obama in '08 have been kicked back into full gear. I've watched the organization here in CA ramp itself up as people start coming out of whatever they've been doing for the last 3 years and getting connected and active again. I have a feeling that it's going to be big this year.

Cycloptichorn
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2011 11:01 am
GOP Walker concedes union rights to Dems

MADISON, Wis., March 9 (UPI) -- Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker offered to concede some union rights to end a Capitol standoff and get Senate Democrats to return from Illinois, e-mails indicated.

more. . .
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2011 05:45 pm
The WI GOP is making their move today in response to fears that they are weakening in the press.

Quote:
03.09.11 -- 6:38PM
WISC GOP Makes It Move

We're still trying to clarify the details. But it looks like Wisconsin Republicans have decided to make their move, redefining the union-busting portions of the budget bill as non-budgetary and voting through those provisions tonight.

The irony here is that the union-busting provisions really are not budgetary -- they're simply an attempt to eliminate unions in the state. But Gov. Walker's argument throughout has been that they are budgetary measures and necessary to avert fiscal catastrophe.

More details as we get them.

--Josh Marshall


This gives the lie to any pretense that the issues in question are budgetary ones. I think that this also will seal the deal for recall votes for several of these guys in question.

Cycloptichorn
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2011 06:07 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Your commentary continues to be delusional
Quote:
MADISON, Wis. (AP) -- Republicans in charge of the Wisconsin state Senate hastily called a conference committee Wednesday to take up Gov. Scott Walker's proposal stripping nearly all collective bargaining rights from public workers, a move Democrats feared was part of a plan to pass some of the most-contested parts of the bill without them.

All 14 Senate Democrats fled to Illinois nearly three weeks ago to prevent the Senate from having the 20 members present to take up the bill, which was introduced to plug a $137 million budget shortfall. But not all parts of Walker's proposal are technically budget-related, and the Senate only requires a quorum to take up budget-related measures.

A key part of the proposal calls for state workers contributing more toward their pensions and health care, equivalent to an 8 percent pay cut. But it also eliminates all collective bargaining rights for most public workers except over salary increases that are no greater than inflation.

The latter piece is what spurred Democrats to flee and led to three weeks of protests by tens of thousands of people.

Democratic Sens. Bob Jauch and Jon Erpenbach said they believed Republicans planned to use their conference committee to take out all budget-related pieces of the bill and get the other parts passed. The move would be a major reversal for Walker and the Republican legislators, who have said all along that the collective bargaining proposals are directly related to the budget.

"I think they're going to do whatever they possibly can to bust up public unions whether we are there or not," Erpenbach said.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Wis-Democrats-fear-apf-1325032729.html?x=0&.v=2
Quote:
MADISON, Wis. — Republicans in the Wisconsin Senate voted Wednesday to fine the chamber's AWOL Democrats $100 for each day they miss of the legislative session, and the governor said the GOP remains committed to his plan to strip most public workers of their collective bargaining rights.

Gov. Scott Walker met with GOP senators in a closed-door meeting a day after releasing details about concessions he's offered to Democrats, saying he had the backing of his fellow Republicans.

"They're firm," Walker said after dashing out of the meeting and into an elevator at the Capitol.
http://www.twincities.com/news/ci_17575324?source=rss&nclick_check=1

0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  4  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2011 06:18 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
These guys are good at gamesmanship; many conservatives still want to destroy unions whether it's budgetary or not. Did Walker ever come out with numbers on how much the state would save by the destruction of unions? I understand that the unions agreed to take less in wages and benefits. Who else have agreed to take lower pay and benefits in WI?
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2011 06:35 pm
So much for caving in.

Quote:
MADISON, Wis. — Republicans in the state Senate voted Wednesday evening to separate a provision stripping public employees of their collective bargaining rights from Gov. Scott Walker's controversial budget bill.

The action would have the effect of rendering moot a Democratic attempt to keep the provision from passing the Senate.

As Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald read the bill to a hastily created joint conference committee, Rep. Peter Barca, D-Kenosha, objected, saying the committee's meeting was in violation of the state's open meetings law. But Fitzgerald went ahead with the vote, which was seen live on WisconsinEye, and the measure was approved. More
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2011 06:36 pm
@JPB,
JPB wrote:

So much for caving in.

Quote:
MADISON, Wis. — Republicans in the state Senate voted Wednesday evening to separate a provision stripping public employees of their collective bargaining rights from Gov. Scott Walker's controversial budget bill.

The action would have the effect of rendering moot a Democratic attempt to keep the provision from passing the Senate.

As Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald read the bill to a hastily created joint conference committee, Rep. Peter Barca, D-Kenosha, objected, saying the committee's meeting was in violation of the state's open meetings law. But Fitzgerald went ahead with the vote, which was seen live on WisconsinEye, and the measure was approved. More



Yup. I think they saw the situation spiraling out of control, and figured that they'd rather go down fighting than be painted as spineless by the national right-wing media.

Cycloptichorn
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2011 06:49 pm
WI local TV reports that union leaders in WI are meeting tonight to discuss plans for a strike of all union members in WI in response to the attack on their rights.

Cycloptichorn
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2011 06:49 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
I think they saw the situation spiraling out of control, and figured that they'd rather go down fighting than be painted as spineless by the national right-wing media
because it just can't be that the conservatives actually believe what they claim to believe......right?? And yet in the very next breath the left will do a song and dance about how much more mature and civilized than they are than the right. This is the same left that absolutely refuses to come to work unless they get what they want.

Americans are tired if the partisan bickering that turns out to be at our expense. If the Dems continue to refuse to work even after the other side has offered deep compromise it will be the DEMS who feel the heat most, no matter how the public feels about the underlining question of collective Bargaining.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2011 06:50 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
WI local TV reports that union leaders in WI are meeting tonight to discuss plans for a strike of all union members in WI in response to the attack on their rights.
WOW, that would be idiotic...
parados
 
  2  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2011 06:51 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
because it just can't be that the conservatives actually believe what they claim to believe......right??
}
Except they claimed it was part of balancing the budget...
Or did you mean they didn't believe what they said?
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2011 06:51 pm
@hawkeye10,
You don't live in Wi, do you?
Cycloptichorn
 
  4  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2011 06:53 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
I think they saw the situation spiraling out of control, and figured that they'd rather go down fighting than be painted as spineless by the national right-wing media
because it just can't be that the conservatives actually believe what they claim to believe......right??


Well, they consistently claimed this was a budget issue, and then turned around and stripped it from a budget bill in order to pass it. So, I don't think what you said here is relevant.

Quote:
Americans are tired if the partisan bickering that turns out to be at our expense. If the Dems continue to refuse to work even after the other side has offered deep compromise it will be the DEMS who feel the heat most, no matter how the public feels about the underlining question of collective Bargaining.


The other side didn't offer any compromises. I don't know why you think they did.

Hawk, I usually gauge whether or not I'm in the right on a topic by looking at what your reaction to something is and whether I've taken the opposite position. You don't know what the 'American people' think on this or any other issue; since when you do speak for them?

Cycloptichorn
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2011 06:55 pm
@parados,
Quote:
You don't live in Wi, do you?
No, but my dad's side of the family comes from WI, and have been politically active. I also have worked in the state. My home city of Rockford IL is only minutes from the state line.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2011 06:56 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
People with egos like Gaddafi and hawk think they have the answer through force of the controlling government. Everybody just loves Gaddafi and Walker; they show chutzpah.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2011 06:58 pm
A crowd of Dems and union supporters has occupied the Capitol building and it doesn't look like they are going to be forced out tonight.

The Dems are claiming that due to Wisconsin's 'sunshine laws' the Conference Committee held by Republicans to split the bill out was illegal. I'll have to read up and see if there's any validity to that.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2011 06:58 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
Well, they consistently claimed this was a budget issue, and then turned around and stripped it from a budget bill in order to pass it.
work rules have a huge impact on budget, but there is a sound rational argument that it is not technically and legally a budget issue.


Quote:
The other side didn't offer any compromises. I don't know why you think they did
. There are emails in the press that argue against your assertion. There are also public comments by one GOP senator that argue against your assertion.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2011 07:00 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
People with egos like Gaddafi and hawk think they have the answer through force of the controlling government. Everybody just loves Gaddafi and Walker; they show chutzpah.
in the current economic and political climate the guy/gal with the demonstrated stones will will our support more often than not, even if we think he/she is technically wrong on some major issues.
0 Replies
 
 

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