plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Mar, 2011 09:18 am
@revelette,
Does anyone remember when Texas Republicans did the same thing?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Mar, 2011 09:48 am
@Irishk,
Irish, That's the reason our economy will go deeper into the pits; less workers paying into all taxes that includes federal and state income taxes, sales taxes, property taxes, excise taxes, utility taxes, and all those other taxes attached to transportation, alcohol, tobacco, and many other items will disappear along with more government workers. They will not only lose their jobs, but many will lose their homes. It's a nightmare that the GOP is creating in our landscape; they want less taxes, and will not negotiate to pay our way. Our infrastructure is crumbling...and our children are going to schools with bigger class size, and their health benefits are being taken away.....

The GOP continues on their destruction of our country.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Tue 1 Mar, 2011 10:33 am
@georgeob1,
Quote:

Finally, our conversation on the subject to date reveals only a closed and unquestioning mind excessively prone to categorical judgements and intolerant of conflicting perspectives. I exhibit some of those qualities too, but I have the scars & track record to merit it.


Well, if you're not enjoying the conversation, I certainly won't force you to continue.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Mar, 2011 10:34 am
Quote:
QUOTE OF THE DAY.... I guess the post-Tucson grace period really is over. Here's House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio), appearing on radical TV preacher Pat Robertson's Christian Broadcasting Network, reflecting on his party's anti-union efforts.

Quote:
"It's not just Wisconsin. It's Ohio. It's Indiana. You're going to see these types of actions taken in a lot of states because the states are broke and over the last couple of years the Obama administration, the Democrat [sic] controlled Congress bailed out the states where they could avoid making the tough decisions. Well, there are no more bailouts coming from Washington. We're broke. We're broke!

"We don't have money to dish out to the states so all these Governors are trying to find ways to balance their budgets, which they're required to do. In some of these states you've got collective bargaining laws that are so weighted in favor of the public employees that there's almost no bargaining. We've given them a machine gun and put it right at the heads of the local officials and they really have their hands tied."


The right has been a little too eager to characterize pro-labor activists as violent thugs, but with little success. Leave it to the House Speaker, though, to take this a little further, arguing that unions have "a machine gun" pointed at the heads of local officials.


Substantively, there are also a few relevant angles here. First, we're not "broke," and it's ridiculous for Boehner to keep insisting otherwise.

Second, the Speaker is proud of himself for refusing to assist struggling states, but it's a policy that drags down the entire economy, just to satisfy Boehner's ideological preferrances. The Ohio Republican may not understand this, but weaker economic growth is the opposite of he should be aiming for.

And third, states with budget problems will likely have to negotiate with public workers, but stripping employees of their collective bargaining rights doesn't actually save any money. This is a union-busting crusade, not a response to fiscal challenges.

John Boehner, in other words, isn't just using language of questionable taste, he's also demonstrating a striking degree of ignorance. Again.
—Steve Benen 11:20 AM


http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2011_03/028229.php

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  4  
Reply Tue 1 Mar, 2011 10:41 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
Finally, our conversation on the subject to date reveals only a closed and unquestioning mind excessively prone to categorical judgements and intolerant of conflicting perspectives. I exhibit some of those qualities too, but I have the scars & track record to merit it.

Really? I too would like to have a closed and unquestioning mind excessively prone to categorical judgments and intolerant of conflicting perspectives. What would I need to do to merit one of those, so that I can be just like you?
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Mar, 2011 10:54 am
@cicerone imposter,
I don't know the answer either, CI. Gov. Cuomo of NY has said he wants to cap or reduce salaries of school superintendents rather than raise taxes. Do you think he's wrong? Should a public school superintendent making nearly $400K annually have his salary capped or should taxpayers in NY be made to pay more? New York's budget deficit is almost $10B, I think.

Cuomo wants to pay superintendents of small districts $125K/year and give $175K to superintendents of larger districts. He says he can save the schools $15M annually by doing this...without raising taxes or layoffs.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Tue 1 Mar, 2011 11:06 am
@Irishk,
There's a thing called "reasonableness" that is missing from all these discussions. From my perspective (opinion), those who are earning hundreds of thousands from taxpayer monies, they need to sacrifice and get paid much less. It's only common sense when tax revenues continue to shrink, and more social services are disappearing. They must also agree to sacrifice their high income and benefits for the sake of "everybody else."
Most communities are now closing libraries, parks, public services of all kinds, increasing the class size for our children, reducing budgets for schools and health care for our children and disabled, and our infrastructure is going to pots.

Unfortunately, greed is a (normal) human characteristic.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Mar, 2011 11:10 am
@Irishk,
Irishk wrote:

I don't know the answer either, CI. Gov. Cuomo of NY has said he wants to cap or reduce salaries of school superintendents rather than raise taxes. Do you think he's wrong? Should a public school superintendent making nearly $400K annually have his salary capped or should taxpayers in NY be made to pay more? New York's budget deficit is almost $10B, I think.

Cuomo wants to pay superintendents of small districts $125K/year and give $175K to superintendents of larger districts. He says he can save the schools $15M annually by doing this...without raising taxes or layoffs.


Now there's a plan I could get behind!

I don't think you'll find a single person who would argue that much of the problems we face are caused by a concentration of too much money at the top. But why stop with school superintendents? The exact same problem exists in every other private industry.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Mar, 2011 11:14 am
@cicerone imposter,
Not a mystery. The right , The Buffets and company have been brainwashing the public since Ronny Ragun. They have been operating on their belief that if you repeat something often enough, no matter how stupid a lie the lie assumes the mantle of truth. And its working. Of course it helps that the Dems have no balls.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Tue 1 Mar, 2011 11:20 am
@RABEL222,
Agreed! The GOP is now threatening the closing of the government; I really hope they succeed, because I want to see what Obama will do. I suspect he'll bend with the demands of the GOP.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Tue 1 Mar, 2011 11:28 am
Back to WI,

Yesterday Walker ordered the Capitol building to be closed to the public and even took the step of welding and fixing the windows of the building shut. This was an effort to drive out the protesters who are there and to keep food and medicine from being given to those inside.

Never mind the fact that the Capitol building belongs to the people of the state of WI and not the Governor. The police obviously agree; they've directly refused orders to evict the protesters from the building for two straight days now.

And it's not just the protesters:

Quote:
Judge Orders Wisconsin Capitol Re-Opened
Eric Lach | March 1, 2011, 12:05PM

A Dane County, Wisc., judge has issued a temporary restraining order to reopen the Wisconsin Capitol building to the public. Capitol access was restricted over the weekend and again this morning, following days in which the building had been crowded with protesters.

Judge Daniel Moeser ordered the building reopened. Court documents posted online read:
Quote:

Resp. shall open the Wisconsin Capitol to members of the public during business hours and at times when governmental matters, such as hearings, listening sessions and court arguments are being conducted. This ex parte restraining order is in effect until the assigned trial court is able to schedule a hearing on the matter. If resp. wishes to have a hearing with respect to this order one will be scheduled as soon as possible before this court, the duty judge, if the assigned trial court is unable to hear the matter promptly. Pet. shall immediately serve a copy of this order on resp.


The court clerk's office told TPM that no further hearing on the matter has yet been scheduled.

Wisconsin's Department of Administration did not immediately respond to TPM's call asking if it would comply with the judge's order.


http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/03/judge-orders-wisconsin-capitol-re-opened.php?ref=fpa

This whole thing is turning into a public relations nightmare for Walker. It's going as poorly as it could go, outside of the Republicans in the Senate refusing to vote for the bill. And it looks as if things may be headed that way as well.

Cycloptichorn
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Reply Tue 1 Mar, 2011 11:34 am
More on the PPP poll in WI, bad news for Walker:

Quote:
Poll: Wisconsin Voters Turn On Gov. Walker, Back State Unions
Jon Terbush | March 1, 2011, 11:58AM

Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker (R) is rapidly losing support from his constituents as he continues to push budget proposals that would cut collective bargaining rights and benefits for most of the states public employee unions, according to new data from a PPP poll, a poll whose results TPM first reported on Monday. His support has slipped so much that, after just two months in office, voters are now evenly divided over whether he should be recalled.

A majority of Wisconsin voters now disapprove of Walker's job performance, a reversal from the positive approval rating he enjoyed immediately after election day. Further, most voters support collective bargaining rights for the state's public employee unions, and oppose Walker's proposal to cut those same rights.

In the poll, 57% of respondents said public employees should have the right to collectively bargain, compared to 37% who said they should not. A similar majority, 55%, said the state's unions should have the same amount of rights or more than they already enjoy, a rebuke to Walker's efforts to roll back those rights.

Further, slim majorities said they side with the unions and senate Democrats -- who fled the state to delay a vote on Walker's bill -- over the governor in the dispute.

Walker's job approval has fallen as the budget stalemate drags on. According to PPP, 52% of voters now disapprove of his job performance, while 46% approve of the job he is doing. That split mirrors another finding in the poll that PPP released Monday, which found Walker losing in a hypothetical do-over election against Democrat Tom Barret, 52% to 45%.

Also ominously for the governor, the state is evenly split at 48% over whether he should be recalled. It's unclear how viable that option would be, but the fact that almost half of voters would consider in theory is certainly a bad sign for Walker moving forward.

The PPP poll was conducted February 24-27 among 768 Wisconsin voters. It has a margin of error of 3.5%.


http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/03/poll-wisconsin-voters-turn-on-gov-walker-back-state-unions.php?ref=fpblg

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Mar, 2011 11:50 am
Rallies in OH today against their Gov's similar plan -

http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/250371839.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0ZRYP5X5F6FSMBCCSE82&Expires=1299002774&Signature=37MR8cHohV1Rn04X2LQ06rMNPVY%3D

I just can't emphasize how much of a mistake I think Republicans are making with this assualt on unions. It's going to haunt them all year and the '12 election is going to be affected - and not in a way they like.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Mar, 2011 11:57 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
It's only common sense when tax revenues continue to shrink, and more social services are disappearing. They must also agree to sacrifice their high income and benefits for the sake of "everybody else."


An yet it is not common sense to take back some of the funds that the super rich had gotten due to past taxes cuts on them. Those thereby once more increasing the revenues to the government.

That people in the middle class that are doing well should however be hit but not the super rich in any manner.

Footnote as the unions had stated time after time that in Wisconsin that they are willing to have give backs it is not a question of budgets but in breaking the remaining power of the middle class.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Tue 1 Mar, 2011 12:05 pm
@BillRM,
That's one of the reasons why I disagreed with Obama's extension of tax cuts for the rich with his last go-around with the GOP; he bends too easily, and has no backbone. Once he sets the precedence to give the GOP what they want based on their "threats," he will never learn that they are not there to negotiate, but to get their way. Continuing tax cuts for the rich is really stupid to most people with common sense; the GOP doesn't have any.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Mar, 2011 01:06 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
This whole thing is turning into a public relations nightmare for Walker.
Really? I was just reading a journalism piece that was claiming that Walker has made himself into a GOP hero in record time. I expect that he sleeps fine...
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Tue 1 Mar, 2011 01:10 pm
@plainoldme,
Quote:
Does anyone remember when Texas Republicans did the same thing?
It was the Democrats, and their attempt to throw a monkey wrench into democracy ended up not doing what they wanted it to do....they got a lot of publicity for running away but at the end of the day the GOP had the votes and got what they wanted.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Mar, 2011 01:19 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
This whole thing is turning into a public relations nightmare for Walker.
Really? I was just reading a journalism piece that was claiming that Walker has made himself into a GOP hero in record time. I expect that he sleeps fine...


He is only a hero to the GOP splinter group known as the Tea Party.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Mar, 2011 01:22 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
He is only a hero to the GOP splinter group known as the Tea Party.
Do you have any evidence for the assertion?
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Mar, 2011 01:48 pm
@hawkeye10,
It going to be interesting if the whole state government of Wisconsin end up grinding to a halt and no bills are being pay, no state workers are being pay and no interest on state bonds are being pay all over Walker wish to break the unions at all costs.
 

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