7
   

Things that the swells like just the way they are?

 
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Feb, 2011 12:21 pm
@contrex,
Quote:
Having said that I have a feeling that it might possibly be a (becoming obsolete) spoken variant in Northern Ireland.


And IrE is a dialect of English.

Quote:

Brendan was born in Armagh in 1958 and lives in Belfast. He only began to write creatively after attending a writer's workshop at the Crescent Arts Centre in March 2003. The group that emerged has continued to meet, providing a source of mutual inspiration and support. Brendan's writing is inspired by life experiences, with a special interest in his love of Gaelic sports. He has had one short story published on a GAA website.

======

Patsy's Last Pint by Brendan McDonnell
Patsy stood at the bottom of the hill, shaking his head in disbelief as he surveyed the scene of devastation before him. He scratched the bald patch under his cap and cursed at the sense of it all.

"Jasus, I don't know," he said to nobody in particular. "Have these boys nothin' better to be doin' with themselves than blowin' a man's drinking establishment to hell, whaa?"

Sure wasn't it only after being re-built and it not a year since the last time it was blew up! But sure ye never knew how these things worked or what went on. The rumours were already doin' the rounds: it was an insurance job; he had been servin' cops; wouldn't pay protection - the usual stuff.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/learning/getwritingni/sh_bm_patsy.shtml


Why would this writer, a native of Ireland be writing about
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Thu 17 Feb, 2011 12:31 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
Finally, there is no way to know how many results are produced by people who are not either native English speakers, or decently educated.

I can think of few things more stupid than relying on a search engine to determine the reliability of language usage.


I can think of number of things. One biggee; relying on anything you have to say regarding the English language. Just before you make your grand pronouncement you illustrate, ho hum, once again, your appalling ignorance of language.

The more one has been "decently educated" with regard to English grammar, the less one seems to know. You are a shining example of that, Setanta. But as we all know, you can't hear this because you aren't brave enough to address such issues.

The example I just gave in the post prior to this one, shows that it is probably a natural use in the Irish dialect of English.
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Thu 17 Feb, 2011 01:03 pm
@contrex,
Me neither works for me . . . but, of course, i am a native speaker of the superior 'Merican language . . .
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  4  
Reply Thu 17 Feb, 2011 01:21 pm
@JTT,

Quote:
The example I just gave in the post prior to this one, shows that it is probably a natural use in the Irish dialect of English.


I cannot understand your eagerness to give credence to whatever patois, creole, or dialect your search engine may from time to time throw up.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Thu 17 Feb, 2011 04:52 pm
@McTag,
I only stated that it was a distinct possibility, McTag. Again, faced with the facts you head off on a spurious tangent.

I can not understand your eagerness to demean others language. It's scientifically inaccurate and it's boorish.

McTag
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Feb, 2011 05:23 pm
@JTT,

I think it's the opposite of boorish.

If you were not so eager to prove everybody else wrong, you wouldn't get yourself in so much of a pickle quite so often.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Thu 17 Feb, 2011 06:05 pm
@McTag,
Quote:
I think it's the opposite of boorish.


That's impossible, McTag, because 'boorish' means rude, not caring about other people's feelings. To denigrate others language is indeed boorish.

As I mentioned, your contention is scientifically inaccurate, so why do you continue with such nonsense? When your contentions are shown to be specious and you are up a stump this is always what happens.

Quote:
If you were not so eager to prove everybody else wrong, you wouldn't get yourself in so much of a pickle quite so often.


I'm not in any pickle. That so many are so wrong so often on language issues points up just how poorly generations of students have been taught about language.
McTag
 
  2  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2011 08:06 am
@JTT,

Quote:
That's impossible, McTag, because 'boorish' means rude, not caring about other people's feelings. To denigrate others language is indeed boorish.


I come on these threads for fun. I like to answer questions which are honestly asked, usually by non-English speakers, in a spirit of helpfulness. I don't denigrate others' language. If someone extends an argument with which I disagree, I will disagree with it, that's all.
I don't recognise any hint of boorishness about that. I will admit to no such thing.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2011 01:11 pm
@McTag,
Quote:
I don't denigrate others' language.


But you did. You leaped to the unwarranted conclusion that this was a "misuse". Then when faced with material that brought into doubt your rash conclusion, all we got was a song and dance.

Yes, you often, ... more than often, way more than often offer excellent advice on language issues. But you also tend to get hung up on some of the most pedantic aspects of English.
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2011 04:08 am
@JTT,

I have re-read this thread with the specific aim of trying to figure out what the hell you are talking about.

And I can't.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2011 11:06 am
@McTag,
I wrote: If a dialect of BrE uses "was blew up" then it is both grammatical and correct


You replied: But it doesn't. So, as you were.

I then offered,

Quote:
Brendan was born in Armagh in 1958 and lives in Belfast. He only began to write creatively after attending a writer's workshop at the Crescent Arts Centre in March 2003. The group that emerged has continued to meet, providing a source of mutual inspiration and support. Brendan's writing is inspired by life experiences, with a special interest in his love of Gaelic sports. He has had one short story published on a GAA website.

======

Patsy's Last Pint by Brendan McDonnell
Patsy stood at the bottom of the hill, shaking his head in disbelief as he surveyed the scene of devastation before him. He scratched the bald patch under his cap and cursed at the sense of it all.

"Jasus, I don't know," he said to nobody in particular. "Have these boys nothin' better to be doin' with themselves than blowin' a man's drinking establishment to hell, whaa?"

Sure wasn't it only after being re-built and it not a year since the last time it was blew up! But sure ye never knew how these things worked or what went on. The rumours were already doin' the rounds: it was an insurance job; he had been servin' cops; wouldn't pay protection - the usual stuff.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/learning/getwritingni/sh_bm_patsy.shtml


which showed that it was possible that such a usage was indeed to be found in IrE.

You suggested that this was a misuse. It was pointed up by Talk, with his link, that this is a dialectal difference. I also pointed that up.

Language has changed. You readily, and frequently, recognize this. How do you think these changes came about, from pedants deciding, "Okay, it's time for this change to be put in place"?

0 Replies
 
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2011 01:03 pm
'Ain't it the truth' is accepted English. So is 'I got me handkerchief all soiled'.
0 Replies
 
Ceili
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2011 01:23 pm
My irish mother would have washed my mouth out with soap if I spoke like that. Just sayin'.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2011 01:36 pm
@Ceili,
Your Irish mother obviously clung to the same old falsehoods that many have and many still do, Ceili.
0 Replies
 
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2011 01:44 pm
Several years ago, my uncle brought two fella's he worked with and brought them to Canada. One of them was caught smoking on the the airplane. Thier english was indecipherable, not just to us, and I'm pretty good with accents and slang, but to the authorities as well. The RCMP let them go because they thought the boys were mentally challenged. Just because people do talk or use incorrect grammar or words isn't a reason to slap them on the back and say swells done... Sometimes wrong is wrong.
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2011 01:47 pm
@Ceili,
That is one way to fool the law! Mr. Green
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2011 02:03 pm
@Ceili,
Quote:
Just because people do talk or use incorrect grammar or words isn't a reason to slap them on the back and say swells done... Sometimes wrong is wrong.


Yes, sometimes wrong is wrong, Ceili but when it comes to language, neither you or your dear sainted mother are/were capable of knowing when that might be. Don't be misled into thinking that the childhood knuckle smacking for perceived errors had any veracity.

When you hear a person speak another language, you can't follow their meaning or accent. It's no different for some dialects.

I've read that ain't was, at one time not too far back in history, the choice of upper class Brits and it was shunned by the working class. Whether this is true or not really isn't important. ain't is simply one grammatical choice, actually an easier one because one form suffices for all the pronouns.

0 Replies
 
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2011 07:16 pm
@Ceili,
"Methinks the lady doth protest too much" by none other than William Shakespeare, the most Famous Writer of the English language..
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2011 07:36 pm
@talk72000,
I fink therefore I is??? Whaaa?
Edited to say...
Hey, if anyone wants the world to sound and write like David, all the power to them, but my sainted father also told me that first impressions were important, thus I was raised to speak as if I was always in front of a judge. And in reality we all are judged, daily, so if people want to sound like idiots, all the power to them. I will continue to parlay like it's of some importance to at least sound like I know the language I speak, others can talk anyway they want.
However, I'm not going to tell someone who is trying to learn to speak english it's ok to screw with convention.
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Feb, 2011 07:40 pm
@Ceili,
Acceptable in quotes. Mr. Green It is all there in Huck Finn.
 

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