Consent of the governed?

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Some of you might claim that I'm free to move if I don't like the laws and by remaining where I am, I am consenting to be governed. But, that's like saying that I'm free to jump in the ocean and drown if I don't like being on a ship at sea. Even if there were someplace I could go, I have no means to get there or to survive once there.

If I immigrated to a country, I could be accused of consenting to the existing laws. However, I was born here. I am a victim of circumstance. So, am I still expected to jump in the ocean and drown even if I never chose to be on the ship in the first place? I hope not.

Therefore, I don't think that being born in a country and remaining there is equivalent to consenting to be governed.

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Type: Discussion • Score: 2 • Views: 1,233 • Replies: 10

[+3] - Robert Gentel - 02/11/2011[quote="Night Ripper"]Therefore, I don't think that being born in a country and remaining there is equivalent to consenting to be governed.[/quote] But you don't just...

@Night Ripper,

Government is a necessity. Look around you, without it we would truely live in a country the conseratives would love. We would all have to carry guns for protection as if we were John Wayne types. Not the kind of life I want for me or mine.

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@RABEL222,

RABEL222 wrote:

Government is a necessity.

I don't believe that.

RABEL222 wrote:

We would all have to carry guns for protection as if we were John Wayne types.

Why couldn't there be private security guards to replace police?

1 Reply

@Night Ripper,

Night Ripper wrote:

Some of you might claim that I'm free to move if I don't like the laws and by remaining where I am, I am consenting to be governed. But, that's like saying that I'm free to jump in the ocean and drown if I don't like being on a ship at sea. Even if there were someplace I could go, I have no means to get there or to survive once there.

If I immigrated to a country, I could be accused of consenting to the existing laws. However, I was born here. I am a victim of circumstance. So, am I still expected to jump in the ocean and drown even if I never chose to be on the ship in the first place? I hope not.

Therefore, I don't think that being born in a country and remaining there is equivalent to consenting to be governed.

They who own the government take your consent for granted, and take you for granted as well... When is the last time you ever got to vote on any act having a real effect on your life??? You get to vote for some one and that some one represents far too many, many more than provided for by the constitution... What that means is that those who want to corrupt government do not have to trouble corrupting a whole people, but only one out of a great many need be corrupted to steer the whole course of government their way...

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@Night Ripper,

Night Ripper wrote:

Therefore, I don't think that being born in a country and remaining there is equivalent to consenting to be governed.

But you don't just "remain" there, you take advantage of the infrastructure the government laid out. If you reject the social contract but take advantage of the infrastructure you are just trying to be a freeloader on the backs of those who do fulfill their ends of the social contract.

1 Reply

@RABEL222,

RABEL222 wrote:

Government is a necessity. Look around you, without it we would truely live in a country the conseratives would love. We would all have to carry guns for protection as if we were John Wayne types. Not the kind of life I want for me or mine.

Good government is a necessity... Bad governments are as necessary to humanity as gangs of theives.... Look what the North said about the south before the war, and their lagging in every indicator of social progress... They said: Bad morals mean bad roads.... And look at our roads... It is a simple equasion that is no less true, because when government cannot provide for the people out of the commonwealth there is no government, and no morals, and no moral authority...

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@Night Ripper,

Night Ripper wrote:

RABEL222 wrote:
Government is a necessity.

I don't believe that.

RABEL222 wrote:
We would all have to carry guns for protection as if we were John Wayne types.

Why couldn't there be private security guards to replace police?

There are already more private police in this country than public ones and that has been the case for many years.... And the rich still demand a great share of the protection of public police even when it is the poor who most often suffer from crime... We cannot privatize everything, and it would cost no less if we did... If every road was built by subscription and only those who could pay could use them there would be little road building and commerce would suffer, and so make everyone pay for roads that did not exist...Think of the cost throughout the Northern States from ice damaged roads... To pay to repair them costs, but cummulatively, the automobile damage and deaths due to bad roads cost all of us through insurance anyway, and we have no more vote in the price of insurance than in anything else...

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@Night Ripper,

Night Ripper wrote:

Some of you might claim that I'm free to move if I don't like the laws and by remaining where I am, I am consenting to be governed. But, that's like saying that I'm free to jump in the ocean and drown if I don't like being on a ship at sea. Even if there were someplace I could go, I have no means to get there or to survive once there.

Oh don't be silly. This is just your fear speaking, billions of other people do it (make a living outside your country) and you'd have to be a special kind of retard not to be able to pull it off.

The only thing preventing you from picking a country is fear. I've lived in 11. I don't like stupid American rules (I always say it's a country governed by grannys) so I don't live there, I live where I choose and so can you if you try. You say you are a programmer right? And that you have a product you sell online? Well you can do that from anywhere, that is a dream job for the wannabe world traveller.

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@Robert Gentel,

Robert Gentel wrote:

But you don't just "remain" there, you take advantage of the infrastructure the government laid out. If you reject the social contract but take advantage of the infrastructure you are just trying to be a freeloader on the backs of those who do fulfill their ends of the social contract.

What are public services for if not for freeloaders? If everyone could afford to pay for their child's education then why would we need public schools? How can you claim to be against freeloaders while supporting the redistribution of wealth?

I personally would be glad to pay for the services I use on the condition that I pay ONLY for the services I use.

Either you pay too many taxes and others freeload on you, or you pay too few taxes and you freeload on others. Regardless, public services are for freeloaders.

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@Robert Gentel,

Robert Gentel wrote:

The only thing preventing you from picking a country is fear.

All countries have ridiculous laws that I refuse to consent to. The only suitable spots would be deserted islands or floating around on an iceberg. Maybe Bill Gates could survive like that but I'm not that rich.

1 Reply

@Night Ripper,

Night Ripper wrote:

Robert Gentel wrote:
The only thing preventing you from picking a country is fear.

All countries have ridiculous laws that I refuse to consent to. The only suitable spots would be deserted islands or floating around on an iceberg. Maybe Bill Gates could survive like that but I'm not that rich.

Abalard said that Ius, Justice is the Genus, and Lex, law is a species of it; and this means that if a law is not just, it is not law, but only coercion...

Some people, having no regard for honor or the honorable threads which bind people to peaceful cooperation, think of law as a thing in its self, which it is not, and use it for their own ends and benefit which they should not because there is no long range benefit to such behavior...

If justice does not come out of a law no one should put any energy into obediance to it... And You are the best judge of what is legal and just, because if a law does not serve you, but harms you when your activity harms no one else, then that law in unjust... And, unjust laws teach immorality, because once people have become used to avoiding and disrespecting all law they have no respect for even just laws, or the trust and honor that should hold us together...

In this country far too many laws are made which injure many, and help but a few... There is a lesson there, that forms like law and government can be corrupted, and must often be replaced...

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