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Hell (a discussion)

 
 
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Thu 4 Apr, 2013 04:27 am
@Smileyrius,
Smileyrius wrote:
If the soul is immortal and heads north or south at death, what is the earths purpose?


Where did you get that from?

I always understood the soul, like the sun, headed west.
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Apr, 2013 07:36 am
@izzythepush,
If there is such a thing as an immortal soul I would think it would merely head OUT.....
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Thu 4 Apr, 2013 08:48 am
@blueveinedthrobber,
The ancient Egyptians compared the soul to the sun which rises (is born) in the east and sets (dies) in the west. The afterlife was known as the western lands.

I've never heard of the soul going north or west, but having said that, your idea makes more sense than any of them.
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Apr, 2013 10:39 am
@izzythepush,
Yes my years of devotion to secluded religious studies have indeed made me wise. Laughing
0 Replies
 
Smileyrius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Apr, 2013 11:46 pm
@izzythepush,
Hi Izzy Smile the reference to north or south was a loose reference to the ideology of heaven and hell.

I have heard this story, and that Rah rode the sun, that every night he travelled through the underworld, to be reborn at dawn.

Does this mean we are all on a 24 hour wash cycle once we die? Smile
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Apr, 2013 06:39 am
wash, rinse, repeat
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Sat 6 Apr, 2013 07:01 am
@blueveinedthrobber,
That's shampoo.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  2  
Reply Sat 6 Apr, 2013 07:33 am
@Smileyrius,
Smileyrius wrote:

Thank you Eva, your thoughts were appreciated

I found the Wiki article quite interesting

wiki on the christian belief of hell wrote:
Christianity
"Gehenna", Valley of Hinnom, 2007Main article: Hell in Christian beliefs
The Christian doctrine of hell derives from the teaching of the New Testament, where hell is typically described using the Greek words Tartarus or Hades or the Arabic word Gehenna.

Hebrew OT Septuagint Greek NT times in NT Vulgate KJV NIV
Sheol[16] Hades Hades[17] x10 infernus[18] Hell Hades
Ge Hinom[19] Ennom[20] Gehenna[21] x11 infernus Hell Hell
tartaro[22] x1 infernus Hell Hell

These three terms have different meanings and must be recognized.

Hades has similarities to the Old Testament term, Sheol as "the place of the dead". Thus, it is used in reference to both the righteous and the wicked, since both wind up there eventually.[23]
Gehenna refers to the "Valley of Hinnon", which was a garbage dump outside of Jerusalem. It was a place where people burned their garbage and thus there was always a fire burning there. Bodies of those deemed to have died in sin without hope of salvation (such as people who committed suicide) were thrown there to be destroyed.[24] Gehenna is used in the New Testament as a metaphor for the final place of punishment for the wicked after the resurrection.[25]
Tartaro (the verb "throw to Tartarus") occurs only once in the New Testament in II Peter 2:4, where it is parallel to the use of the noun form in 1 Enoch as the place of incarceration of 200 fallen angels. It mentions nothing about human souls being sent there in the afterlife.
In many Christian churches, such as the Catholic Church, most Protestant churches (such as the Baptists, Episcopalians, etc.), and some Greek Orthodox churches,[26] Hell is taught as the final destiny of those who have not been found worthy after they have passed through the great white throne of judgment,[27][28] where they will be punished for sin and permanently separated from God after the general resurrection and last judgment. The nature of this judgment is inconsistent, with many Protestant churches teaching the saving comes from accepting Jesus Christ as their savior, while the Greek Orthodox and Catholic Churches teach that the judgment hinges on both faith and works. However, many Liberal Christians throughout Liberal Protestant, Anglican, Catholic and some Orthodox churches believe in Universal Reconciliation (see below) even though it might contradict the "official" teachings of their denomination.

Some Christian theologians of the early Church and some of the modern Church subscribe to the doctrines of Conditional Immortality. Conditional Immortality is the belief that the soul dies with the body and does not live again until the resurrection. This is the view held by Orthodox Jews and a few Christian sects, such as the Living Church of God, The Church of God International, and Seventh Day Adventist Church.

Annihilationism is the belief that the soul is mortal unless granted eternal life, making it possible to be destroyed in Hell.

Jehovah's Witnesses hold that the soul ceases to exist when the person dies[29] and therefore that Hell (Sheol or Hades) is a state of non-existence.[29] In their theology, Gehenna differs from Sheol or Hades in that it holds no hope of a resurrection.[29] Tatarus is held to be the metaphorical state of debasement of the fallen angels between the time of their moral fall (Genesis chapter 6) until their post-millennial destruction along with Satan (Revelation chapter 20).[30]

Universal Reconciliation is the belief that all human souls (and even Demons) will be eventually reconciled with God and admitted to Heaven. This view is held by some Unitarian-Universalists.



It's all about crowd control by the guys in the funny hats. Wink
0 Replies
 
agreen325i
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 May, 2013 03:19 pm
@rosborne979,
i wish i could believe that, but no one can truly say they KNOW thats what heaven and hell is. All these philosophies just give ideas, not belief that a person needs
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Jun, 2013 01:09 pm
@farmerman,
Actually, the River Styx is in Hopatcong, New Jersey.
Probably somewhere near Frank's place.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Jun, 2013 01:12 pm
On a more humorous note, if God had ordained any further punishment for Adam and Eve other than death, one would think it appropriate to have included that in his warning recorded in Genesis.
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jun, 2013 04:37 am
@agreen325i,
agreen325i wrote:
i wish i could believe that, but no one can truly say they KNOW thats what heaven and hell is. All these philosophies just give ideas, not belief that a person needs

The only belief you need (or anyone needs) is the belief that you have the ability to understand the world around you; that magic doesn't control the world. Then give up on finding absolute knowledge and learn to accept probability over possibility. If you can manage that, then the words of the priests and the prophets and the fantasies of ancient documents will all fall away like a skein of lies.
0 Replies
 
Tichama
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Aug, 2013 02:31 am
King Solomon wrote this in the bible at Ecclesiastes 3: 18-22:

"18 I, even I, have said in my heart with regard to the sons of mankind that the [true] God is going to select them, that they may see that they themselves are beasts. 19 For there is an eventuality as respects the sons of mankind and an eventuality as respects the beast, and they have the same eventuality. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit, so that there is no superiority of the man over the beast, for everything is vanity. 20 All are going to one place. They have all come to be from the dust, and they are all returning to the dust. 21 Who is there knowing the spirit of the sons of mankind, whether it is ascending upward; and the spirit of the beast, whether it is descending downward to the earth? 22 And I have seen that there is nothing better than that the man should rejoice in his works, for that is his portion; because who will bring him in to look on what is going to be after him?"

Solomon said this because he was a wise man who lived on the earth, and so saw things from man's point of view, unlike Christ Jesus who had an advantage as he was originally in heaven and then was born again on earth.

Jesus stated at Luke 16:19-31
"a certain man was rich, and he used to deck himself with purple and linen, enjoying himself from day to day with magnificence. 20 But a certain beggar named Laz′a·rus used to be put at his gate, full of ulcers 21 and desiring to be filled with the things dropping from the table of the rich man. Yes, too, the dogs would come and lick his ulcers. 22 Now in course of time the beggar died and he was carried off by the angels to the bosom [position] of Abraham.
“Also, the rich man died and was buried. 23 And in Ha′des he lifted up his eyes, he existing in torments, and he saw Abraham afar off and Laz′a·rus in the bosom [position] with him. 24 So he called and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Laz′a·rus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in anguish in this blazing fire.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that you received in full your good things in your lifetime, but Laz′a·rus correspondingly the injurious things. Now, however, he is having comfort here but you are in anguish. 26 And besides all these things, a great chasm has been fixed between us and YOU people, so that those wanting to go over from here to YOU people cannot, neither may people cross over from there to us.’ 27 Then he said, ‘In that event I ask you, father, to send him to the house of my father, 28 for I have five brothers, in order that he may give them a thorough witness, that they also should not get into this place of torment.’ 29 But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to these.’ 30 Then he said, ‘No, indeed, father Abraham, but if someone from the dead goes to them they will repent.’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone rises from the dead.’”

So I say that people are not really given the advantage of knowing what is to become of them after they die. What you believe in this case probably does not matter in the end. In other words it is a belief that has no consequence as it is stated in scripture under two different viewpoints, one from Solomon (who also wrote Ecclesiastes 9:5,10) and one from Christ. What we do know from the bible is that there will be a time for us to be judged. It will be up to the judge to decide our punishment or if we will be punished at all for that matter. There is also some good reason to believe that our judges will be men appointed by God for this task; At Luke 22:28-30 Jesus stated:

28 “However, YOU are the ones that have stuck with me in my trials; 29 and I make a covenant with YOU, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom, 30 that YOU may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones to judge the twelve tribes of Israel."

also Revelation 5:9,10

. 9 And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, because you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”

So here in this scripture there are priests taken from among mankind who are given authority over the entire earth just as Jesus' followers were given authority over the twelve tribes of Israel. So the people who will be judges over us will understand us, unlike an angel who perhaps doesn't really know what it's like to be human. Do you know of anyone righteous that would condemn someone to eternal torment for no good reason? Not likely, but those judges will be pure in heart. Also Revelation 20:13 states that people will be judged "according to their deeds"

Revelation 20:11-15
11 And I saw a great white throne and the one seated on it. From before him the earth and the heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. But another scroll was opened; it is the scroll of life. And the dead were judged out of those things written in the scrolls according to their deeds. 13 And the sea gave up those dead in it, and death and Ha′des gave up those dead in them, and they were judged individually according to their deeds. 14 And death and Ha′des were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire. 15 Furthermore, whoever was not found written in the book of life was hurled into the lake of fire.

What you believe can be a factor as to whether you will be obedient to God during your lifetime. Whatever you take to heart should motivate you to become more noble, and therefore worth keeping. Think of your life as a picture that God would want to hang on his wall. If it is something ugly, you will be thrown out. If it is nice you will hang around.

Stay cheerful my friends...

Tim
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Sep, 2013 01:25 pm
http://www.channelate.com/comics/2008-12-17-dont-believe-everything-you-hear.jpg
http://www.channelate.com/2008/12/17/dont-believe-everything-you-hear/
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Sep, 2013 02:06 pm
@Tichama,
So now Solomon wrote the bible? Who knew ? ! ? ! ?
0 Replies
 
 

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