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Social Scientists - A Tribal-Moral Community

 
 
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 10:53 am
NY TIMES

They actually needed to be told this?

Quote:
“Anywhere in the world that social psychologists see women or minorities underrepresented by a factor of two or three, our minds jump to discrimination as the explanation,” said Dr. Haidt, who called himself a longtime liberal turned centrist. “But when we find out that conservatives are underrepresented among us by a factor of more than 100, suddenly everyone finds it quite easy to generate alternate explanations.”


Quote:
“If a group circles around sacred values, they will evolve into a tribal-moral community,” he said. “They’ll embrace science whenever it supports their sacred values, but they’ll ditch it or distort it as soon as it threatens a sacred value.” It’s easy for social scientists to observe this process in other communities, like the fundamentalist Christians who embrace “intelligent design” while rejecting Darwinism. But academics can be selective, too, as Daniel Patrick Moynihan found in 1965 when he warned about the rise of unmarried parenthood and welfare dependency among blacks — violating the taboo against criticizing victims of racism.


What do you think, will they hit Dr. Haidt's suggested quota of 10% conservative representation?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 1,724 • Replies: 8
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 11:02 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
I'm not sure how they'd do it, but it'd be terrific.

I've always found the bias particularly noticeable in the social work community. Of course, I found an equal and opposite bias as an engineering student back in the 1970's. I'm not sure if there is a balanced faculty out there.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 12:06 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
What do you think, will they hit Dr. Haidt's suggested quota of 10% conservative representation?


What, you advocating for Quotas? Laughing

Conservatives self-select themselves out of academic roles in large part. There's little money in it, after all.

The funny thing is? These supposed insular Liberals weren't exactly entirely against his proposition:

Quote:
Can social scientists open up to outsiders’ ideas? Dr. Haidt was optimistic enough to title his speech “The Bright Future of Post-Partisan Social Psychology,” urging his colleagues to focus on shared science rather than shared moral values. To overcome taboos, he advised them to subscribe to National Review and to read Thomas Sowell’s “A Conflict of Visions.”

For a tribal-moral community, the social psychologists in Dr. Haidt’s audience seemed refreshingly receptive to his argument.
Some said he overstated how liberal the field is, but many agreed it should welcome more ideological diversity. A few even endorsed his call for a new affirmative-action goal: a membership that’s 10 percent conservative by 2020. The society’s executive committee didn’t endorse Dr. Haidt’s numerical goal, but it did vote to put a statement on the group’s home page welcoming psychologists with “diverse perspectives.”


Just to re-hash the main thrust of the arguments from the old Foxfyre 'Diversity in everything but thought' thread, there's absolutely nothing at all preventing Conservatives from going into academia. I find most of the problems to be speculative in nature, such as the students in the article - they don't think their articles or viewpoints will be accepted, so they don't bother to raise those points or fight for their views. That's not how academia works or how the scientific process works.

It's almost as if they expect the academic world to come around to their point of view without having to argue for it. I don't understand that much at all.

Cycloptichorn
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 06:26 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
No advocate of quotas am I, but that seems to be the Triabal-Moral Community's solution to all problems perceived to be discrimination.

Your silly notion that conservatives don't want to enter the world of Academia because they can't make enough is not only silly, it's laughable.

I can just imagine how you would howl if someone posted that blacks self-select against careers in science because it requires too much work.

It's reassuring to see that you will attempt to defend even the most obvious of left-wing errors. Constants make us feel secure, and you're nothing if you're not constant.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 06:31 pm
@ehBeth,
I don't see how political bias can have as significant an impact on engineering as it does "social science," but I can appreciate the need for diversity of thought in any field.

0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 06:32 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

No advocate of quotas am I, but that seems to be the Triabal-Moral Community's solution to all problems perceived to be discrimination.

Your silly notion that conservatives don't want to enter the world of Academia because they can't make enough is not only silly, it's laughable.


Nah, it's not laughable. I've worked in and out of academia my whole life. There's not a lot of money in it, compared to what a high-level performer can make in private industry.

What's your experience with Academia and the amount that those who are in it make, compared to private industry?

Quote:
I can just imagine how you would howl if someone posted that blacks self-select against careers in science because it requires too much work.


Warning! My Terrible Analogy meter is blowing up!

Quote:
It's reassuring to see that you will attempt to defend even the most obvious of left-wing errors. Constants make us feel secure, and you're nothing if you're not constant.


What, Finny, is the error? Be specific. What is the error that the left-wing or anyone made in this case? And show what I said in response to it as well.

I ask that, because I am alleging that you are full of ****. I didn't defend anything written or done by anyone in that community, and even pointed out that the supposedly insular community was not hostile towards the suggestion...

You're in such a hurry to pick an argument with a lefty on this issue, that you've gone and shot your load a little early. But hey, it's okay, man. We like ya anyway, and it happens to a lot of guys Laughing

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 06:43 pm
Apples and Oranges.

Conservative is a political designation. Conservative is not a gender (such as woman) or a skin color (black) or a ethnic minority (i.e Hispanic).

It seems ridiculous that you are trying to compare the two.

Other political designations would be "socialist" ( I mean real socialist here) or "torie", both of these groups are far worse represented then "conservative". Yet you don't hear anyone else complaining about a lack of equal rights for a political belief.

The reason we give consideration to religious, ethnic or racial minorities is because our society has a historic unfairness that continues today-- not based on the inferiority of these groups, but on an unfairness that is an intrinsic part of our society. This unfairness is probably part of any society, but most of us feel this wrong is worth addressing.

It is difficult to argue that any unfairness about a political doctrine is due to anything other than the a problem with this political doctrine.

By the way, Christianity is not a political doctrine. If you can convince me that Christians are being treated worse in our society than Jews or Muslims, then I would agree that this would be as important to address as any other minority.

But given the facts, I think this is a very difficult argument to make indeed.

Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 07:00 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:

But given the facts, I think this is a very difficult argument to make indeed.


The problem is that modern Conservatives have a deep-set persecution complex. They are convinced that, through accident or design, they are the most discriminated against group in America.

One would think that if there was a great desire by Conservatives to enter the various halls of academia, there would be little that could stop them from doing so. One has to resort to half-baked conspiracy theories in order to come up with some outer force which keeps them from doing so.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Feb, 2011 10:44 am
http://www.balloon-juice.com/2011/02/11/conservative-science-yur-doin-it-rong/#more-60424

Quote:
But beyond the goal of reducing personal embarrassment, the more that the independent authority of scholars and scientists can be diminished, the easier it becomes for ever more risible statements to take on the status of holy writ. After all, we all know that progressive taxes infallibly drive away the rich...Right?

That said (and there’s more to be done with a detailed fisking of both Tiernery and McCardle, which I may yet attempt) here I just want to point out that Tierney undercuts the entire farrago with one injudicious anecdote.

His source, Jonathan Haidt, a U. VA social psychologist, made the central claim that Tierney takes up and McArdle then amplifies. Haidt claims that the political orientation of the members of his field is so overwhelmingly liberal that only discrimination can account for that distribution. His proof? A show of hands at a conference.** Other than that, the only other Haidt evidence Tierney references comes from an email from an allegedly victimized student:

Quote:
“I consider myself very middle-of-the-road politically: a social liberal but fiscal conservative. Nonetheless, I avoid the topic of politics around work,” one student wrote. “Given what I’ve read of the literature, I am certain any research I conducted in political psychology would provide contrary findings and, therefore, go unpublished. Although I think I could make a substantial contribution to the knowledge base, and would be excited to do so, I will not.”



O. K. class. What does this complainant get wrong?

I’ll give you a hint. Look again at this sentence:

Quote:
Given what I’ve read of the literature, I am certain any research I conducted in political psychology would provide contrary findings and, therefore, go unpublished.



That is: this student says that he or she is “certain” that her/his results would break consensus, and hence, inevitably, would languish in conspiratorially enforced obscurity.

Uh, kid. Listen up: When you already know what your research will reveal, what does that tell you?

It ain’t research.

You have no knowledge to “contribute to the knowledge base” if the conclusions you propose to add to our collective store of human wisdom is what you already know by some process other than the “research” you propose.

Note that Haidt’s anonymous disappointed ideologue tells us of his/her intention to respond to her/his field’s stunning lack of awe at this proposal by picking up his/her marbles and going home.


I found the original article in the NYT to be poorly written and scientifically and logically incorrect.

Cycloptichorn
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