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Does light have Mass?

 
 
Quehoniaomath
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2014 09:45 am
@DNA Thumbs drive,
Quote:
So the wall, or floor that the light is shining on, in your mind has no mass.

Okeedokee, ifm u um say um so, it must um, be um true.


Indeed it has NO MASS. it is not physical you see!
DNA Thumbs drive
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2014 10:10 am
@Quehoniaomath,
Does your brain have more mass, than the floor that you are standing on?
Quehoniaomath
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2014 10:16 am
@DNA Thumbs drive,
Quote:
Does your brain have more mass, than the floor that you are standing on


You don't understand it. There is NO mass, hence the question is irrelevant.
0 Replies
 
peter jeffrey cobb
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2014 10:38 am
@DNA Thumbs drive,
I read the cat article and it talks about how photons act.
Where do you read into it that these structures have mass?
DNA Thumbs drive
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2014 11:11 am
@peter jeffrey cobb,
I didn't read the article, I posted it for you to read, so from that you will just have to draw your own conclusions.
peter jeffrey cobb
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2014 11:21 am
@DNA Thumbs drive,
Well we already talked about how even space has mass even though it has not been described yet.
That being the least dense structure of mass that we can identify, it should be the base of a table describing the different structure transformations of mass.
Do you agree?
DNA Thumbs drive
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2014 11:27 am
@peter jeffrey cobb,
You may have talked about this, I never did.
0 Replies
 
DNA Thumbs drive
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2014 11:52 am
@peter jeffrey cobb,
Since light has no mass, how can it be trapped by the gravitational pull of a black hole?


Newton thought that only objects with mass could produce a gravitational force on each other. According to Newton’s theory, the force of gravity should not affect light. Einstein discovered that the situation is a bit more complicated than that.

First he discovered that gravity is produced by a curved space-time. Then Einstein theorized that the mass of an object actually curves space-time. Mass is linked to space in a way that physicists today still do not completely understand. However, we know that the stronger the gravitational field of an object, the more the space around the object is warped. In other words, straight lines are no longer straight if exposed to a strong gravitational field; instead, they are curved.

Since light ordinarily travels on a straight-line path, light follows a curved path if it passes through a strong gravitational field. This is what is meant by "curved space," and this is why light becomes trapped in a black hole. In 1919, a team led by Sir Arthur Eddington proved Einstein’s theory when they observed the bending of starlight when it traveled close to the Sun. This was the first successful prediction of Einstein’s General Theory of Relativity.



One way to picture this effect of gravity is to imagine a sheet of rubber stretched out. Imagine that you put a heavy ball in the center of the sheet. The weight of the ball will bend the surface of the sheet close to it. This is a two-dimensional picture of what gravity does to spacetime in four dimensions. Now take a little marble and send it rolling from one side of the rubber sheet to the other. Instead of the marble taking a straight path to the other side of the sheet, it will follow the contour of the sheet that is curved by the weight of the ball in the center. This is similar to how the gravitation field created by an object (the ball) affects light (the marble).
Quehoniaomath
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2014 02:27 pm
@DNA Thumbs drive,
Quote:
Since light has no mass, how can it be trapped by the gravitational pull of a black hole?


lol, gravitation can't pull and there are no blackholes at all!
See the thread about blackholes here on able2know, thank you.
DNA Thumbs drive
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2014 02:34 pm
@Quehoniaomath,
Quote:
lol, gravitation can't pull and there are no blackholes at all!
See the thread about blackholes here on able2know, thank you.


Right, and nothing has mass either.

http://sharonlathanauthor.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/merrychristmas.gif
peter jeffrey cobb
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2014 02:49 pm
@DNA Thumbs drive,
?? What part of a photon has no mass? The quark? No that has too.
DNA Thumbs drive
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2014 03:05 pm
@peter jeffrey cobb,
What is the mass of a photon?

This question falls into two parts:

Does the photon have mass? After all, it has energy and energy is equivalent to mass.

Photons are traditionally said to be massless. This is a figure of speech that physicists use to describe something about how a photon's particle-like properties are described by the language of special relativity.

The logic can be constructed in many ways, and the following is one such. Take an isolated system (called a "particle") and accelerate it to some velocity v (a vector). Newton defined the "momentum" p of this particle (also a vector), such that p behaves in a simple way when the particle is accelerated, or when it's involved in a collision. For this simple behaviour to hold, it turns out that p must be proportional to v. The proportionality constant is called the particle's "mass" m, so that p = mv.

In special relativity, it turns out that we are still able to define a particle's momentum p such that it behaves in well-defined ways that are an extension of the newtonian case. Although p and v still point in the same direction, it turns out that they are no longer proportional; the best we can do is relate them via the particle's "relativistic mass" mrel. Thus
p = mrelv .
When the particle is at rest, its relativistic mass has a minimum value called the "rest mass" mrest. The rest mass is always the same for the same type of particle. For example, all protons have identical rest masses, and so do all electrons, and so do all neutrons; these masses can be looked up in a table. As the particle is accelerated to ever higher speeds, its relativistic mass increases without limit.

It also turns out that in special relativity, we are able to define the concept of "energy" E, such that E has simple and well-defined properties just like those it has in newtonian mechanics. When a particle has been accelerated so that it has some momentum p (the length of the vector p) and relativistic mass mrel, then its energy E turns out to be given by
E = mrelc2 , and also E2 = p2c2 + m2restc4 . (1)
There are two interesting cases of this last equation:
1. If the particle is at rest, then p = 0, and E = mrestc2.
2. If we set the rest mass equal to zero (regardless of whether or not that's a reasonable thing to do), then E = pc.


In classical electromagnetic theory, light turns out to have energy E and momentum p, and these happen to be related by E = pc. Quantum mechanics introduces the idea that light can be viewed as a collection of "particles": photons. Even though these photons cannot be brought to rest, and so the idea of rest mass doesn't really apply to them, we can certainly bring these "particles" of light into the fold of equation (1) by just considering them to have no rest mass. That way, equation (1) gives the correct expression for light, E = pc, and no harm has been done. Equation (1) is now able to be applied to particles of matter and "particles" of light. It can now be used as a fully general equation, and that makes it very useful.

Is there any experimental evidence that the photon has zero rest mass?

Alternative theories of the photon include a term that behaves like a mass, and this gives rise to the very advanced idea of a "massive photon". If the rest mass of the photon were non-zero, the theory of quantum electrodynamics would be "in trouble" primarily through loss of gauge invariance, which would make it non-renormalisable; also, charge conservation would no longer be absolutely guaranteed, as it is if photons have zero rest mass. But regardless of what any theory might predict, it is still necessary to check this prediction by doing an experiment.

It is almost certainly impossible to do any experiment that would establish the photon rest mass to be exactly zero. The best we can hope to do is place limits on it. A non-zero rest mass would introduce a small damping factor in the inverse square Coulomb law of electrostatic forces. That means the electrostatic force would be weaker over very large distances.

Likewise, the behavior of static magnetic fields would be modified. An upper limit to the photon mass can be inferred through satellite measurements of planetary magnetic fields. The Charge Composition Explorer spacecraft was used to derive an upper limit of 6 × 10−16 eV with high certainty. This was slightly improved in 1998 by Roderic Lakes in a laboratory experiment that looked for anomalous forces on a Cavendish balance. The new limit is 7 × 10−17 eV. Studies of galactic magnetic fields suggest a much better limit of less than 3 × 10−27 eV, but there is some doubt about the validity of this method.
Quehoniaomath
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2014 03:10 pm
@DNA Thumbs drive,
you are not aware that relativity is obsolete?!
0 Replies
 
Quehoniaomath
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2014 03:12 pm
@DNA Thumbs drive,
Quote:
Right, and nothing has mass either.


Right, but it 'sounds' as if you disagree with this? Am I right?


Oh and btw Christmass is nothing more then the celebration of the winter-solstice! Nothing todo with a mystical jesus! But that is for another thread. Wink
DNA Thumbs drive
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2014 03:18 pm
@Quehoniaomath,
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5007/5290760409_e90affddd3_b.jpg
Christmas, is where Christians join hands, and wonder at the majesty of the child, who came not to guide the blind, but to give them sight.

Again, the periodic table has excellent descriptions of mass and weight both.

Amen
peter jeffrey cobb
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2014 03:18 pm
@DNA Thumbs drive,
That is a long explanation saying that yes photons have mass. Since you posted it you must be in agreement.
Now back to space. Let me see if I can prove a structure exists.
Move something that you know that has mass through it. Such as a photon. If it has no resistance than nothing is there.
Can you detect resistance when a photon moves through space?
DNA Thumbs drive
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2014 03:20 pm
@peter jeffrey cobb,
I copied it from the internet, because you seem to be unable to do this yourself. As for whether I agree with it, this is unknown, because I have not read it.
Quehoniaomath
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2014 03:20 pm
@DNA Thumbs drive,
Quote:
Christmas, is where Christians join hands, and wonder at the majesty of the child, who came not to guide the blind, but to give them sight.


Come'on now ! Be an adult!

Oh btw the christmass tree is a PAGAN symbol and the round balls refer to the sun! (solstice!!!)

It is all astrotheology, nothing to do with what you wrote!



DNA Thumbs drive
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2014 03:29 pm
@Quehoniaomath,
Which is why the tree is adorned with images of the Christ child.

Praise to the child is being sung now, and will continue with or without you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFWyiYDWPm4
0 Replies
 
peter jeffrey cobb
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2014 03:37 pm
@DNA Thumbs drive,
So what other reasons are you posting here? I mean you don't even read what you post.
 

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