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Panel Says 9/11 was Preventable

 
 
PDiddie
 
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2003 07:09 am
So is this big news ... or not?

CBS News, on their website, wrote:
For the first time, the chairman of the independent commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks is saying publicly that 9/11 could have and should have been prevented.

"This is a very, very important part of history and we've got to tell it right," said Thomas Kean.

"As you read the report, you're going to have a pretty clear idea what wasn't done and what should have been done," he said. "This was not something that had to happen."

Appointed by the Bush administration, Kean, a former Republican governor of New Jersey, is now pointing fingers inside the administration and laying blame.

"There are people that, if I was doing the job, would certainly not be in the position they were in at that time because they failed. They simply failed," Kean said.

To find out who failed and why, the commission has navigated a political landmine, threatening a subpoena to gain access to the president's top-secret daily briefs. Those documents may shed light on one of the most controversial assertions of the Bush administration - that there was never any thought given to the idea that terrorists might fly an airplane into a building.

"I don't think anybody could have predicted that they would try to use an airplane as a missile, a hijacked airplane as a missile," said national security adviser Condoleeza Rice on May 16, 2002.

"How is it possible we have a national security advisor coming out and saying we had no idea they could use planes as weapons when we had FBI records from 1991 stating that this is a possibility," said Kristen Breitweiser, one of four New Jersey widows who lobbied Congress and the president to appoint the commission.


cbsnews.com

Here's a Google News search. Noted with a snort of disgust how Newsmax tries to blame Clinton. Rolling Eyes
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Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2003 07:13 am
Well, here's another angle:

Quote:
But key recordings of Mr. Clinton admitting that he turned down an offer for bin Laden's extradition to the U.S., "though we knew," in the ex-president words, "that he wanted to commit crimes against America" - have not been sought by the commission.

Clinton's comments were videotaped by the Long Island Association, where he made the stunning admission during the group's annual luncheon on Feb. 15, 2002. However, requests for the video later that year by NBC News, the Fox News Channel and NewsMax.com were refused by the business group.


http://www.phxnews.com/fullstory.php?article=8103


Quote:
Here's a Google News search. Noted with a snort of disgust how Newsmax tries to blame Clinton.



PDiddie- Looks like you didn't read through ALL the hits on that search!
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2003 07:37 am
Yes, I read through all the hits, Phoenix.

(That's just plain rude, by the way.)

The focus of this investigation does a lot more to indict Bush than Clinton.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2003 07:47 am
I think that is one of the problems. How do you blame an administration that had only been in office one year for a problem that has been in planning for 5? I think that both administrations can be equally admonished for such a catastrophe, but I feel the blame should lay where it belongs. Squarly on the shoulders of Bin Ladin.
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2003 07:58 am
McGentrix wrote:
I think that is one of the problems. How do you blame an administration that had only been in office one year for a problem that has been in planning for 5? I think that both administrations can be equally admonished for such a catastrophe, but I feel the blame should lay where it belongs. Squarly on the shoulders of Bin Ladin.


A fine point, and one I agree with.

The Twin Towers were attacked by terrorists in 1993 (Clinton had been in office 38 days).

Those terrorists were captured, convicted, and sentenced to prison.

I contend (and there is ample evidence to support it, which is why Gov. Kean is saying the things he is) that Bush and co. did not take seriously enough the threat posed by al-Qaeda.

Another fine question is: could the 9/11 attacks have been thwarted had bin Laden been captured before they occurred?

That's a 50-50, in my view. Still would've required the current administration being more vigilant.
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Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2003 08:10 am
I heard the story lead on ABC radio news, but didn't see it on TV news channels this morning. I think it will grow legs, example, an interviewed widow of a man killed in the WTC is very angry that little to no info has been released about the incident.

She said that the planes were caught on film hitting the buildings, yet she would have known more about her husbands death if he'd been killed in a car accident, unseen. I don't think the two scenarios equate, but her sentiment is probably common among victim survivors.

I think there were likely more than one way and opportunity to prevent 9/11 given other terrorist activities by the same faction that proved beyond a doubt that we were targets. 9/11 attack was a five year plan that actually went through some changes along the way. I'm not going to lay blame at one administration but the current one and the previous one.

This issue will end up being stickier than the Iraq war as more subpoenas are issued IMO. The thing is, it will involve reviewing reams of intelligence which has been suspect in so many aspects lately that a lot of wiggle room will be there for individual accountabilities to be bypassed.
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2003 08:21 am
I got news for you folks; that disaster couldn't have been avoided if we had the blueprints. I've been on dozens of flights since then and there is still no way to prevent such an attack. The new security doors may help, but they sure don't look like much to me. The number of items still slipping past security is staggering. The mail-cargo is still virtually un-scrutinized and the occasional cop against 4 to 5 trained killers remains a mismatch. Personally, I think they should attach a Louisville Slugger to every seat with a warning of serious penalties for disturbing it without cause. Try jacking a plain full of angry people armed with baseball bats.
To answer your question, no, that's not big news. Hindsight is usually pretty close to 20/20 and in retrospect I'm sure both administrations wish they'd have done more to prevent it. The unfortunate truth is; any person willing to die to commit a crime has an excellent chance of succeeding. Ask yourself if you could pull it off today. I'll bet you don't like the answer.
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2003 08:23 am
Personally, I think that BOTH administrations "dropped the ball". But, then again, I have never been too fond of Monday morning quarterbacks, so I think that it is counterproductive to place blame on one president or the other.

Part of the problem, as I see it, was that few people would have anticipated, or even imagined, the scope of the tragedy that was 9/11. It was a wake up call for all of us.
The important thing is to make sure that something like that will NEVER happen again!
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2003 08:33 am
OCCOM BILL wrote:
I got news for you folks; that disaster couldn't have been avoided if we had the blueprints. I've been on dozens of flights since then and there is still no way to prevent such an attack. The new security doors may help, but they sure don't look like much to me. The number of items still slipping past security is staggering. The mail-cargo is still virtually un-scrutinized and the occasional cop against 4 to 5 trained killers remains a mismatch. Personally, I think they should attach a Louisville Slugger to every seat with a warning of serious penalties for disturbing it without cause. Try jacking a plain full of angry people armed with baseball bats.
To answer your question, no, that's not big news. Hindsight is usually pretty close to 20/20 and in retrospect I'm sure both administrations wish they'd have done more to prevent it. The unfortunate truth is; any person willing to die to commit a crime has an excellent chance of succeeding. Ask yourself if you could pull it off today. I'll bet you don't like the answer.


There's a kernel or two of wisdom in there.

"What were we thinking, letting people on planes with boxcutters?!?" was one of the first questions that came to my mind in the wake of the tragedy.

But you kind of go off the rails after that, Bill, considering that Bush has cut funding to first-responders, that 95% of the container cargo in our ports are still not being inspected, etc.

Let's remember that Condi Rice, prior to the inauguration, got a briefing (that Sandy Berger, her predecessor attended) where she was told that terrorism, and specifically al Qaeda, would be the most important issue the new administration would face.

Condi first lied about Berger attending, then lied about the importance placed on the intelligence, and is still lying today about it (go back to the first post in this thread and read her quote).

You're right (at least I hope so); it's all gonna come out.
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Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2003 08:33 am
Good point OCCOM, there has been plenty slipped by airport and port securities in general. We are still very exposed to an array of dirty deeds, it doesn't mean that a particular act couldn't be prevented based on good info, for example all planes could have been grounded etc.

I don't like to use hindsight as a way of indicting the powers at be either, but are we totally helpless?
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2003 08:38 am
Brand X wrote:
Good point OCCOM, there has been plenty slipped by airport and port securities in general. We are still very exposed to an array of dirty deeds, it doesn't mean that a particular act couldn't be prevented based on good info, for example all planes could have been grounded etc.


And, of course, who will catch the blame if something horrible happens?

BTW, has anyone noticed that we no longer have color-coded alerts any more?

Did someone in the administration come to the realization that that was just a ridiculous notion that only served to scare seniors and other sheep into not going out to shop, or what? :wink:
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2003 08:40 am
The planes couldn't be grounded indefinitely. No, I don't think we're helpless. I travel with my stainless steel briefcase whether it's business or pleasure. When the flight attendant tells me to call if I need her, I tell her to do the same. I believe the citizens themselves are our first and best line of defense against terrorists. Meanwhile, I hope with all of my heart, that my government is doing everything possible to kill these bastards before we have to.
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2003 08:44 am
Quote:
I believe the citizens themselves are our first and best line of defense against terrorists.


Exactly. We can make a show of heightened security, but, IMO, most of it is P.R., and really serves no useful purpose. The kinds of things that we need to do to secure our planes, cannot be accomplished by a security guard with a wand, who stops 80 year old ladies.
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2003 10:58 am
H.I.T.T.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2003 01:35 pm
What is H.I.T.T. ?
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2003 01:36 pm
hindsight is twenty twenty
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2003 01:38 pm
Oh. Thanks!
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2003 01:56 pm
What is H.I.T.T.?

The story as discussed here made a big point of the inquiry getting hold of the nightly CIA briefings. It will be interesting to see the full report - Kean was certainly interesting on interview.

I do wonder, though, about how inevitable and clear things always seem with hindsight - it is way easy to point to the presagings when they are selected out from all the contradictory presagings for you with the lasar light of knowledge....
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2003 08:48 pm
Governor Kean is now backtracking on his assertions above:

Quote:
The chairman of a federal commission looking into the Sept. 11 attacks said Thursday that mistakes over many years left the United States vulnerable to such an attack, but he resisted pinning blame on either of the last two presidential teams.

"We have no evidence that anybody high in the Clinton administration or the Bush administration did anything wrong,'' chairman Thomas Kean said in an interview with ABC's "Nightline'' taped for airing Thursday night.

Kean said the 10-member National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States has not decided whether to ask former President Clinton or President Bush to testify. He also said that any conclusions about the performance of high-level officials "will be reached when we are finished with our job, not now.''

Kean sought to clarify remarks attributed to him in a CBS News report that aired Wednesday.


The Guardian

And this, from today's White House press briefing:

Quote:
Q: Well, I have talked to his office, and they're saying that he was quoted accurately. But he did say, apparently there's no question about it, he did say it was preventable. He did say, when asked specifically, are there people who failed to prevent it who are still in authority, his answer was, yes, and we'll find out who those people are.

MR. McCLELLAN: I haven't seen any further comment from him. But when I looked at his comments, I didn't quite take that same impression. But I would reiterate that the President strongly supports the work of the commission. If there is something that we can learn that can help prevent a terrorist attack like September 11th from happening, we want to know about it. And that is why at the direction of the President, we are working very closely with the commission to help them complete their important work. Both the chairman and co-chairman have publicly applauded the assistance of the White House in helping the commission. So that's where things are. But the commission is continuing to do its work.


And some more:

Quote:
Q What impression did you get from what Kean said?

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, again, I don't want to speak for Chairman Kean, but I just didn't quite walk away with that same impression that Ken described.

Q Has the commission officially notified the White House of these claims, or are you learning of it just from this --

MR. McCLELLAN: Of which claims?

Q That there were problems and that there are people in place who possibly could have prevented September 11th?

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, one, the commission is continuing to do its work. And it's important that they complete their work. And that's why we're working closely with them, to help them complete their important work. I don't want to do anything that would get in the way of them completing their work. I mean, I think I'll let them describe, in terms of where they are in conducting their work and completing their work.

Q In the cooperation that the White House has shown with the commission, have any of your people found any similar evidence to match what Governor Kean has suggested?

MR. McCLELLAN: Which part of what he suggested?

Q That there were problems that could have possibly been prevented.

MR. McCLELLAN: As we have previously said, there is nothing that we have seen that leads us to believe that September 11th could have been prevented. We previously said that. That still stands.


I suppose I'm still the only one on this thread that finds several completely preposterous things about all this.... Question
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Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Dec, 2003 08:54 pm
PD, It all seems that way sometimes. You ever notice how the threads on this forum usually end up being debunkathons?
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