6
   

comma/more superior

 
 
Joeblow
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2010 10:04 am
@FBM,
Hah! I want half my apple back.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2010 10:17 am
@Joeblow,
Dammit! That always happens!
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2010 11:19 am
@FBM,
Quote:
Koreans can't distinguish between gerunds and infinitives, since they don't exist in the Korean language (not exactly, anyway),


What do gerunds and infinitives have to do with adjectives like "boring" and "confusing"?


Quote:
so I hear things like, 'Are you boring?' and 'I'm so confusing!' It keeps life interesting.


And what's wrong with those examples. In the right context, they'd be fine. In the wrong context, they'd be mixed up. How do you fix that particular problem?

0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2010 11:24 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
Linguists have been attempting to drape themselves in the mantle to science ever since.


You make a pretense that you know of English grammar. I think that the linguists score is much higher than yours, but that's to be expected. They study the subject, free of the goofy opinions that you swallowed like the pablum fed to you.

Quote:
I remain unconvinced.


Yeah, like that carries a lot of weight.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2010 11:29 am
@tanguatlay,
In all honesty, I did not expect Singapore to beat Vietnam(,) as Vietnam were far more superior in terms of teamwork, fitness, passing and movements.

2. Is it correct to use "more superior"?

=======================

Yes, it is correct, MsTan.

JTT
 
  0  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2010 11:37 am
@McTag,
Quote:
"Language Science", the term itself and the ideas behind it, reminds me of the remark made about attempting to explain a joke.


You make a remark like this after you bring Fowler to the table for a discussion on language. You are normally much more discerning, McTag.

Why is it that language science has satisfactory explanations for language while all the prescriptions of the Peeves threads went up in smoke?

Are you digging in Fowler for an explanation on those three examples we've been discussing?
0 Replies
 
Joeblow
 
  2  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2010 11:45 am
@JTT,
JTT, I’m interested to know if you would use “far more superior,” in your own writing.

Edit: If the sentence in question were yours, would you use "far more superior" in it?
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2010 11:59 am
@Joeblow,
Quote:
JTT, I’m interested to know if you would use “far more superior,” in your own writing.


To what end, Joe, might you want to know? Why do you specify 'writing'?
Joeblow
 
  2  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2010 12:45 pm
@JTT,
I don’t want to make you too uncomfortable but I’m trying to understand. No need to answer of course, but if the answer is that you wouldn’t, it might be helpful for Tanguatlay to know that.

I’ve said I wouldn’t use it myself, and why.

You’ve said you think it’s grammatically correct, but I suspect you wouldn’t use it either, so I’m attempting to clarify. It may help Tanguatlay decide if she wishes to use it.

Would you like half an apple?


George
 
  2  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2010 03:31 pm
Superior is the comparative of superus.

Oops! Wrong forum. Never mind.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  2  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2010 04:05 pm
@JTT,

Quote:
2. Is it correct to use "more superior"?

=======================

Yes, it is correct, MsTan.



I don't believe it is, and it's bad style too.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Dec, 2010 11:08 pm
@Joeblow,
as Vietnam were far more superior in terms of teamwork, fitness, passing and movements.

It's not got anything to do with my personal comfort level, Joe. I wasn't trying to avoid your question, nor am I now. But this is more complicated than, "Would you use it in your writing?"

My foremost concern, having been an EFL teacher for almost a quarter century, is to get for students thee most accurate description of language possible.

I think that the word 'superior' is simply a more formal choice of comparative so it sounds more natural, [because it's more common] when it is matched/collocated with 'far' or 'vastly'.

Which of the two, 'far' or 'vastly' do you think is more commonly collocated with 'superior'? [Check at the bottom of post for results. Don't peek until you've made a choice]

There are countless phrases/words/whole sentences even that I use in speech that I would never use in some of my more formal writing; in other writing situations, some of them probably, others it's less likely.

I'm completely comfortable with all the language I use, in whatever register it might be. Of course, like everyone else, at times I self edit, writing something, then choosing another manner of expressing the same thing.

Just as regards memory, it's extremely difficult to say if I have ever used it in my writing up to now. [Notice the redundancy]

I know it's grammatically correct, of that there is no doubt. What is there that could possibly make it ungrammatical?

But I too am more comfortable with vastly/far superior because those are my, how can I phrase this? the collocations most common to my dialect/my neck of the woods.
















vastly superior - About 3,210,000 results

far superior - About 16,000,000 results

Should we all be forced to choose 'far', for every register of English, just because it is the one that most people use?

Here are some other results you might find interesting.

far more superior - About 2,870,000 results

vastly more superior - About 14,900 results
oolongteasup
 
  2  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2010 02:21 am
@JTT,
Merry Christmas and thanks for your comprehensive and erudite insight on this and many other threads JTT.



Quote:
...I would never use in some of my more formal writing ...


Dare you post a paragraph of your writing so that we may rip it to shreds in festive felicity?
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2010 04:09 am
@JTT,

I think we're getting confused here. The goalposts have shifted.

To recap:

Far superior, vastly superior: good

Far more superior, vastly more superior: not good

In my humble opinion.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2010 04:49 am
About using double comparatives, using 'more superior' as an example of an error: http://books.google.co.kr/books?id=YHoSAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA230&lpg=PA230&dq=English+syntax+'more+superior'&source=bl&ots=gZfvoR_0mM&sig=oNi6N_zCzeklN6FVVEwSQTfKVoQ&hl=ko&ei=HO4JTfOKI4ussAOIsoieCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CEcQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q&f=false

(p. 230)
Joeblow
 
  2  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2010 12:30 pm
@JTT,
Thanks, JTT.

I do think that’s helpful to know, even though you chalk it up to mere convention. I disagree with the *why* of your reasoning in this matter, but will content myself with the bottom line: you wouldn’t use it either Razz

JTT
 
  0  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2010 10:56 pm
@Joeblow,
Quote:
I do think that’s helpful to know, even though you chalk it up to mere convention.


What do you mean by "mere convention"?

Quote:
I disagree with the *why* of your reasoning in this matter,


Then by all means, explain yourself, Joe.


JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2010 10:57 pm
@FBM,
FBM, you suggest that you are an EFL teacher. Is it beyond you to discuss an issue?
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2010 11:00 pm
@McTag,
As is the case, always, McTag, the rules of language are not determined by opinion, humble or otherwise.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  2  
Reply Thu 16 Dec, 2010 11:29 pm
http://www.iolani.honolulu.hi.us/Keables/KeablesGuide/PartOne/AdjectivesandAdverbs.htm
Quote:
2. Deg: use comparative and superlative degrees correctly. For related rules, see Comp (incomplete comparisons) in Part Two.

Avoid using:

(a) superlatives to compare two things

WRONG (TWO THINGS): The best boxer won. RIGHT: The better boxer won.

(b) redundant comparatives

WRONG (REDUNDANT): more livelier RIGHT: livelier

(c) superlatives as vague intensifiers

WRONG (VAGUE): She is the sweetest girl. RIGHT: a sweet girl; the sweetest girl I know

(d) degrees of absolutes

WRONG (ABSOLUTES): more superior, more immortal, most perfect, most unique, most totally

Grammar Tip: Modifiers have degrees: good, better, best. Use the comparative degree to compare two things; the superlative for three or more things.


(Emphasis added)
 

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