Why believe in god? The theist perspective.

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Not sure why you are guessing that the Jews "knew" got existed and rejected him, but I think that is the kind of guess a moron would make.

You typoed here.

It should read,
"Not sure why you are guessing that the Jews 'knew' God existed and rejected him, but I think that is the kind of guess a moron would make."

Jews knew this, because unlike you, they actually observed nature and understood that there was something out there that couldn't be explained by graduate-level science. Yes, they come across as tribal rubes too unsophisticated to understand what they were seeing.

But the story of Genesis and Exodus is the story of the relationship of a family line, and their being picked by someone beyond their comprehension.
* Abraham was convinced that his line would end with him. Instead, even though he was old and his wife was barren, he has a child. He eventually becomes great-grandfather (probly not while alive) of twelve kids, each of which have families of their own.
* The father of these twelve kids is a scoundrel, but nonetheless encounters a strange man who wrestles with him before touching his hip and putting it out of socket. The man then blesses him on behalf of God telling him that his name will be Israel, the name of the nation that later will be founded.
* One of these twelve kids gets sold into slavery by his brothers, then winds up in prison because his master's wife goes all #MeToo on him for refusing her. Welp, that's the end of Joseph, right? No, actually he makes his way all the way up to Pharoah's #2 by having a gift to interpret dreams.
* Then generations pass, and the Jews are slaves in Egypt. Instead of staying slaves for the rest of their existence, they are rescued from Egypt, and their foes are defeated simply for following them across a river. We'll leave out the ten plagues.

(The thing is, Egypt has records of Joseph and Moses)
https://bibleask.org/is-there-a-record-for-the-biblical-joseph-and-his-story-in-egyptian-history/
https://wyattmuseum.com/joseph-in-ancient-egyptian-history/2011-664
https://www.ancient-origins.net/history-famous-people/moses-0012411
https://www.anumuseum.org.il/blog-items/lets-hear-it-from-the-pharaohs-the-egyptian-story-of-moses/

To put this in perspective, this would be like if you met a gumiho (nine-tailed fox) guised as a woman while shopping at a department store. After chasing her down because she shoplifted, you see her in her true form.
Would you be able to find a reasonable explanation for such a critter? Or would it be more sensible to say this, "Science is the study of the natural world. This is a supernatural being. I don't know how to explain this scientifically, but maybe I don't need to." You have some misguided notion that you have to cast aside science to believe in the supernatural. Supernatural = "above" "natural". Science is the study of the natural world. It is fully possible to have a grasp of science, and to partition supernatural events as simply outside the study of science.

So how did the Jews know? They knew because they had an encounter much like you meeting this hot gumiho (right before she eats your liver, of course).

The kind of thing that a moron would do is not see evidence right in front of them. So if you ever meet a foxy lady, don't act like she isn't for real. That's moronic.

A close encounter of the first kind is a sighting in which one or more unidentified flying objects have been spotted. This would include objects loosely described as flying saucers, objects which can not be attributed to known human technology that appear in the sky, or strange lights for which no rational explanation can be offered. Close encounters of the first kind are the most commonly reported events on the Hynek scale.

A close encounter of the second kind is one in which a UFO has been spotted, but there is associated phenomena that accompanies it. The phenomena can be a crop circle, terrain damage, scared animals, electronic or mechanical interference, gaps in memory (lost time), heat or radiation, catalepsy (paralysis), or some form of unnatural physical occurrence.

Close encounters of the third kind would be those in which a UFO has been spotted, but go further to include a visual confirmation of an animate object that is associated to the UFO. For many years, reports of a close encounter of the third kind were the most controversial as there is little to no way to prove their validity.

A close encounter of the fourth kind is one in which a human is abducted by an extraterrestrial. In some cases depending on the many interpretations of this, abduction does include a visitation in which the human is not actually taken aboard a UFO, but is in the custody of an ET while still on Earth.

A close encounter of the fifth kind is one in which there is bilateral contact with an extraterrestrial entity. This can be through some audible form of communication, or by some form of mental/telepathic communication. The contact can be initiated by either a human or extraterrestrial.

A close encounter of the sixth kind entails a UFO or its inhabitants directly causing injury or death. It has been cited numerous times that this is unnecessary as it is already included on the Hynek scale under physical contact.

The most controversial encounter to most is a close encounter of the seventh kind. A close encounter of the seventh kind is one in which a human and extraterrestrial mate to produce a hybrid being.

Favorite term there. Blindly guessing.

Has it never occurred to you that perhaps some of the reason I am so passionate about God is because I have seen and heard things that I couldn't explain? I have nearly 300 page of notes on coincidences that didn't add up.

And believe me, I tried. At some point, the "rational explanation" starts to look like Agent Scully yet again trying to explain away UFOs with swamp gas.
Yes, people who have never seen God are blind guessing. Yes, this applies to agnostics and atheists, they are definitely blindly guessing because they haven't seen anything. And alot of religious people haven't any proof and are content with that. I never was. I grew up in a school system where science very much was about falsifying theories (I got taught real science rather than this "global warming is consensus" crap), and never learned from the so-called "greats" of scientific atheism. I had plenty of courses in biology, physics, and chemistry. Out of college, I wanted to have proof of what I had learned about in Sunday school and church. You know what? I got it.

So, at what point can you say you know something and aren't just blind guessing? When you've met a shapeshifting spirit being over and over again. Now feel free to talk other agnostics out of their ideas, but without doing anything besides writing down a number of mundane events and connecting patterns, I pretty clearly proved to myself that whoever I saw didn't look like a stereotypical hallucination but more spot on with something out of God Friended Me or My Girlfriend Is A Gumiho.
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When categorizing UFO sightings, they have a criteria called Close Encounters. They number what kind of encounter it was.

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A close encounter of the first kind is a sighting in which one or more unidentified flying objects have been spotted. This would include objects loosely described as flying saucers, objects which can not be attributed to known human technology that appear in the sky, or strange lights for which no rational explanation can be offered. Close encounters of the first kind are the most commonly reported events on the Hynek scale.

This is first on the scale because it leaves behind no trace of its passing, making it indistinguishable from hallucinations or being overtired. Hell lights in the sjy can be floaters in your eye.

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A close encounter of the second kind is one in which a UFO has been spotted, but there is associated phenomena that accompanies it. The phenomena can be a crop circle, terrain damage, scared animals, electronic or mechanical interference, gaps in memory (lost time), heat or radiation, catalepsy (paralysis), or some form of unnatural physical occurrence.

Already we're past hallucinations, though this can still be explained as a hoax.

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Close encounters of the third kind would be those in which a UFO has been spotted, but go further to include a visual confirmation of an animate object that is associated to the UFO. For many years, reports of a close encounter of the third kind were the most controversial as there is little to no way to prove their validity.

This seems to be a step backward, actually. But basically, the idea I think is that you got a picture of the thing, and asked other people if they saw it. Visual confirmation is still better than hallucination, as we can't all be seeing something (mass hallucinations aren't real, according to psychology), so that comes to some sort of hoax or it happened.

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A close encounter of the fourth kind is one in which a human is abducted by an extraterrestrial. In some cases depending on the many interpretations of this, abduction does include a visitation in which the human is not actually taken aboard a UFO, but is in the custody of an ET while still on Earth.

You actually get snatched by what you saw. Again, could be a hoax, but now we're beyond what can be seen and into the other senses, as some probing might happen here.

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A close encounter of the fifth kind is one in which there is bilateral contact with an extraterrestrial entity. This can be through some audible form of communication, or by some form of mental/telepathic communication. The contact can be initiated by either a human or extraterrestrial.

You get to talk to the alien (or supernatural creature) and it talks back.

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A close encounter of the sixth kind entails a UFO or its inhabitants directly causing injury or death. It has been cited numerous times that this is unnecessary as it is already included on the Hynek scale under physical contact.

You can typically verify a death body, no? Maybe it's a hoax, but now you have lasting and permanent effect, and whoever performed the hoax is wanted for murder. This is a sort of incentive against a hoax, because it has a real risk of prosecution if police investigate and discover that this was done by people.

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The most controversial encounter to most is a close encounter of the seventh kind. A close encounter of the seventh kind is one in which a human and extraterrestrial mate to produce a hybrid being.

Lastly, we have what would be called a demigod or Nephilim in mythical cultures. We read an account in Noah's Ark about just this phenomenon. Obviously, this is the hardest to deny in the scale, because the child grows up with supernatural powers.
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So, by this scale, I had a Close Enounter of the Fifth Kind with a supernatural being. I didn't see antthing immediately dramatic but rather I communicated and got talked to right back. Repeatedly by what seemed to be different people but same mannerisms , same catchphrases, same general outlook.

Could this be a hoax? Sure. But then you'd have to explain the motive for such a thing. I am nobody special, and nobody is likely to listen to me. This event was wholly because I needed to know if God was real. If what I was taught in church is real.

I know. I don't have to blind guess.

But you keep blindly guessing. Maybe one day you'll find what you need and want.

Frank,
You don't like the "God of the Old Testament" so you pretend that people can't know that He exists. However, He has revealed Himself to mankind. He even came down to earth to save us from our sins.
Parents often play a game with their babies called "peek-a-boo". They cover their eyes with their hands and then uncover their eyes and cry out "peek-a-boo!!!!!"
God doesn't play that game. He has made Himself known. Please take your hands away from your eyes (spiritually speaking) and acknowledge that God exists.

Oxford University Professor John Lennox told over 600 people at the National Prayer Breakfast why he is not convinced by atheism.

The math professor told guests at the Bible Society-sponsored event that atheism was a "delusion" and a "fairy tale for those afraid of the light".

He urged Christians to have "the courage to create public space" for the discussion of "a biblical worldview", as he pointed to the example of Tyndale, who translated the Bible into English 400 years ago and would eventually be executed.

Dr Lennox, who has been an outspoken critic of "God Delusion" author Richard Dawkins, blamed new atheism for the "moral drift" in society.

He also dismissed the common assumption that science and religion are not compatible.

"There is no necessary conflict between science and God, the real conflict is between worldviews, atheism and theism," he said.

"God is not the same kind of explanation as science is. God is the explanation of why there is a universe at all in which science can be done."

Dr Lennox admitted his fear that the contribution of Christianity to the moral foundations of British society would be forgotten in the prevailing climate. This could be seen already, he suggested, in the parliamentary expenses scandal and the Leveson inquiry.

"The playing field is not level since atheism has become so dominant … and is often regarded as the default position in the media," he said.

"If we teach people that morality is an illusion, they will begin to believe it. Many already have with the result that our institutions are awash with scandal, families are increasingly fractured, people are lonelier than ever and trust is at an all-time low. We have sown a wind and are reaping a whirlwind."

On the same day as the National Prayer Breakfast, Prime Minister David Cameron issued a statement affirming the place of Christianity in Britain.

"It is encouraging that Christianity still plays such a vital role in our national life. We are a country with a Christian heritage and we should not be afraid to say so," he said.

Prof Lennox responded, "No one in this country seems to have a problem with doing atheism in public. Let us not be ashamed of doing God."

Guests at the National Prayer Breakfast included MPs Fiona Bruce, Gary Streeter and Tim Farron.

Matthew van Duyvenbode, Head of Campaigns, Advocacy and Media at Bible Society said, "In a society searching for deeper meaning, a compelling witness to hope is required. Within the Scriptures, we find a tantalising vision of hope – one which stimulates, provokes and invites us to become the signs of hope for others."

Frank,
You don't like the "God of the Old Testament" so you pretend that people can't know that He exists. However, He has revealed Himself to mankind. He even came down to earth to save us from our sins.
Parents often play a game with their babies called "peek-a-boo". They cover their eyes with their hands and then uncover their eyes and cry out "peek-a-boo!!!!!"
God doesn't play that game. He has made Himself known. Please take your hands away from your eyes (spiritually speaking) and acknowledge that God exists.

Hey, I got a normal scientific training.

It was only after college that I began to decide that this didn't add up. And ironically, it's thanks to what I learned in math and science that I was able to become convinced that the idea of a round Earth was a NASA lie.

When you make blind guesses, you are lost.

I'm of the opinion that God plays any game with us that we want.

Including allowing us to pretend he doesn't exist. Or allowing us to see 11:11 signs, or Bigfoot, or UFOs. But sooner or later, the delusion has to end, or you wind up doing damage to your psyche. God exists, atheism is the delusion.

https://www.christiantoday.com/article/atheism.is.a.delusion/32967.htm
Atheism is a 'delusion'

Quote:

Oxford University Professor John Lennox told over 600 people at the National Prayer Breakfast why he is not convinced by atheism.

The math professor told guests at the Bible Society-sponsored event that atheism was a "delusion" and a "fairy tale for those afraid of the light".

He urged Christians to have "the courage to create public space" for the discussion of "a biblical worldview", as he pointed to the example of Tyndale, who translated the Bible into English 400 years ago and would eventually be executed.

Dr Lennox, who has been an outspoken critic of "God Delusion" author Richard Dawkins, blamed new atheism for the "moral drift" in society.

He also dismissed the common assumption that science and religion are not compatible.

"There is no necessary conflict between science and God, the real conflict is between worldviews, atheism and theism," he said.

"God is not the same kind of explanation as science is. God is the explanation of why there is a universe at all in which science can be done."

Dr Lennox admitted his fear that the contribution of Christianity to the moral foundations of British society would be forgotten in the prevailing climate. This could be seen already, he suggested, in the parliamentary expenses scandal and the Leveson inquiry.

"The playing field is not level since atheism has become so dominant … and is often regarded as the default position in the media," he said.

"If we teach people that morality is an illusion, they will begin to believe it. Many already have with the result that our institutions are awash with scandal, families are increasingly fractured, people are lonelier than ever and trust is at an all-time low. We have sown a wind and are reaping a whirlwind."

On the same day as the National Prayer Breakfast, Prime Minister David Cameron issued a statement affirming the place of Christianity in Britain.

"It is encouraging that Christianity still plays such a vital role in our national life. We are a country with a Christian heritage and we should not be afraid to say so," he said.

Prof Lennox responded, "No one in this country seems to have a problem with doing atheism in public. Let us not be ashamed of doing God."

Guests at the National Prayer Breakfast included MPs Fiona Bruce, Gary Streeter and Tim Farron.

Matthew van Duyvenbode, Head of Campaigns, Advocacy and Media at Bible Society said, "In a society searching for deeper meaning, a compelling witness to hope is required. Within the Scriptures, we find a tantalising vision of hope – one which stimulates, provokes and invites us to become the signs of hope for others."

Frank, you've got a gift of saying so much with so few words.

You are making a blind guess that other people are making a blind guess.

When people have proof, calling it a blind guess is bias.

That does it, I will show you my 300 pages of notes. With names redacted to protect the innocent. It'll take awhile...

While I have never read the book, a summary of it gives me the impression that the author is dealing with a much more sophisticated question about God than Frank is.
Frank is really saying nothing when he says there may or may not be a god.

After editing from about 9:30 to nearly 3pm, I decided that trying to redact names and such was actual work, and abandoned it. 300+ pages of text messages and facebook stuff is simply too tedious to work through. Just the facebook part was 112 pages of private chatting and emojis.

Needless to say, most of it was boring conversation on Facebook and phone text, but it was highly interesting to me, as it overlapped with a number of odd coincidences. For example, a gal named Lilliana that I met at a bar, same name as a subscriber to one of my books.

Yeah, Frank never has any deep or meaningful things happen to him. This is what you get when you shut things out.

Frank has an impression that theists are somehow broken, and are sure of things that they cannot be sure of. But I've found talking to other theists incredibly engaging. They are sharp, awake, and interesting people. Compared to Frank's intellectually lazy approach, which isn't saying anything besides "I dunno, and you don't either." These people were on fire with their experiences, and made me want to get to know them better (but I was shy).