58
   

Why believe in god? The theist perspective.

 
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Nov, 2010 06:42 am
@hingehead,
Look how many atheists are on this thread, compared to theists.
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Nov, 2010 06:55 am
@aidan,
not sure about Springsteen, but Was (Not Was) rocks the house
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Nov, 2010 06:57 am
I'm a not a theist, but if I were I'd have plenty of trepidation about saying something here (kudos to George). Even though I think msolga is completely sincere it reads as trappy -- c'mon little theists, post why you believe in God so all of us atheists here can rip your reasoning to shreds!!!

I don't think that's anyone's fault exactly, just kind of how it's evolved as a thread so far.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Nov, 2010 07:04 am
I agree with Soz, but i think they would be wrong about that. No one has jumped on George that i've seen.
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Nov, 2010 07:17 am
back when i was a church going youngster, the bible was a good read (still is in a fable sort of way), the whole god/jesus thing didn't bother me, it was church, i couldn't stand, i could probably believe in some kind of god, but i don't think i could ever handle any organized religion
0 Replies
 
George
 
  3  
Reply Tue 23 Nov, 2010 07:33 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
I agree with Soz, but i think they would be wrong about that. No one has
jumped on George that i've seen.

I agree with sozobe as well.
But I'd asked questions on the "Atheism" thread and gotten reasonable
answers, so I thought I'd return the favor.

Now if you'll excuse me for a bit, I have some (potentially) sociopathic work
to attend to.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Nov, 2010 07:47 am
@sozobe,
Quote:
I'm a not a theist, but if I were I'd have plenty of trepidation about saying something here (kudos to George). Even though I think msolga is completely sincere it reads as trappy -- c'mon little theists, post why you believe in God so all of us atheists here can rip your reasoning to shreds!!!

I don't think that's anyone's fault exactly, just kind of how it's evolved as a thread so far.

Soz, I disagree that most of the atheists who have shown interest in having this discussion would tear any theist who participated to shreds. I think most of us would have made a point not to do that, actually.
And if any theists didn't feel comfortable about talking in great depth about their own, personal religious beliefs, I would certainly understand that, too.

However, some theists (a minority of theists on this site, I'm sure) have been extremely disruptive, on a continuous basis, to threads about the teaching of evolution in US schools, or the thread intended for atheists to discuss atheism .... some of their contributions have been very offensive & the continuous disruptions have made it impossible for those threads to function as intended.

I guess, my motivation for starting this thread in the first place, was out of sheer frustration about the way that those threads have not been allowed to function.: "So, OK, so if you have something you want to say about your beliefs, well here's your opportunity to say those things & stop disrupting other threads with your own agenda . Here's your opportunity to say what you actually want to say."

But of course, the very theists who I would have liked to have participated here haven't done so. Maybe they are worried that their beliefs would be treated with similar disrespect to that they've subjected atheists to? As I said, I believe that wouldn't have occurred, but it looks like we are not about to find out ...
All we received was one response from George. A theist who would never treat anyone's ideas about anything disrespectfully. Hats off to you, George. That was brave & my respect for you has increased even more (something I did not think was possible! Smile )

But, I guess, if the conversation cannot be had, that poses the question, Why not? Is the only theist contribution to such discussions here to remain a largely negative anti-atheist one?

fresco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Nov, 2010 08:29 am
@msolga,
Quote:
Why not?


In case you missed it, I tried to explain "why not" above. We are asking theists to put their self integrity on the line. They have invested such "selves" in a what we argue is a questionable insurance policy. Unless they have attempted what they see as an "unsuccessful claim" they are unlikely to contemplate the possible futility of their investment.

In addition, there is the argument that what we think of as "self" is largely a product of social relationships. It would "irrational" for some theists to risk the stability of such relationships by an atheistic "rebirth", because unlike a theistic rebirth there is no psychological pay-off.
Mame
 
  2  
Reply Tue 23 Nov, 2010 08:38 am
Maybe theists haven't shown up here because they don't need to discuss/explain / justify their beliefs and reasons for them. Maybe they're perfectly content and don't feel a need to share. Don't they go to church and bible meetings for that? And, yeah, maybe they don't want to be ridiculed. I totally get why they're not here.

As far as them being disruptive on other threads, they're not the only ones guilty of that.

I think it would be a boring thread, anyway, no offense to msolga or any theists out there.
George
 
  3  
Reply Tue 23 Nov, 2010 08:53 am
@fresco,
fresco~

You call my belief in God "a questionable insurance policy".
I disagree. A belief in God does not necessarily require belief in an
afterlife, which is what I assume is the insurance policy.

You go on to say:
"In addition, there is the argument that what we think of as 'self' is largely
a product of social relationships."
I ain't even going there.

~George
George
 
  3  
Reply Tue 23 Nov, 2010 08:58 am
@Mame,
Mame wrote:
. . . I think it would be a boring thread, anyway, no offense to msolga or
any theists out there.

None taken. I'm a suburban dad who works as a test engineer.
Boring is what I'm all about.
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Nov, 2010 09:00 am
@George,
Wink
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 23 Nov, 2010 09:00 am
@msolga,
Quote:
would tear any theist who participated to shreds. I think most of us would have made a point not to do that, actually.
Do you think them capable ? Us Agnostics are invited too, I take it ?
George
 
  4  
Reply Tue 23 Nov, 2010 09:21 am
@Ionus,
G'Day, Ionus. Yeah, I believe we agnostics are invited.

I say "we" because some time ago an A2Ker named FrankApisa convinced me
that even though I believe in God, I am in fact an agnostic
rosborne979
 
  2  
Reply Tue 23 Nov, 2010 09:25 am
@George,
George wrote:
I believe in God.

Which concept of "God" do you lean toward?
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Nov, 2010 09:27 am
@George,
Quote:
even though I believe in God, I am in fact an agnostic
Now there's an interesting story behind that......care to share ?
fresco
 
  2  
Reply Tue 23 Nov, 2010 09:51 am
@George,
Insurance policies don't always require an "endowment" clause. They can protect against "the unpredictable" in this lifetime thereby facilitating a "purposeful" existence.

You may not wish to consider "the social". But "closer" religious communities which indoctrinate their children, and threaten to "shun" apostates (or worse), illustrate the the general import of my remark.
Phoenix32890
 
  5  
Reply Tue 23 Nov, 2010 09:51 am
@George,
George- Well, Frank got to you too. For decades, I considered myself an atheist. Then I came across Frank, who convinced me that atheism was the other side of the coin to theism.

Where I stand now, is that I believe that basically we don't have the foggiest idea about the ultimate truths of the universe, and probably never will. If one wants to put a label on me, I like the moniker "apatheist". That is, I don't know, and I don't care. If it weren't for the folks who insist on insinuating their beliefs in the political arena, religion would be a non issue for me.

I also have an aversion to the concept of prayer. In prayer, one looks outside of oneself for solace, answers, etc. I compare this to the young child who has not yet any personal power, but who looks to his parents for answers. I think that looking within oneself is a far more mature way to deal with the problems of living.
George
 
  3  
Reply Tue 23 Nov, 2010 10:00 am
@rosborne979,
rosborne979 wrote:
George wrote:
I believe in God.
Which concept of "God" do you lean toward?

Great question.

I lean toward a concept of God as the impetus of the universe.
To my mind God, in relation to the universe, is both immanent and
transcendant.
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Nov, 2010 10:00 am
@Phoenix32890,
wow, wish i could vote this post up a thousand times
0 Replies
 
 

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