Why believe in god? The theist perspective.

Look how many atheists are on this thread, compared to theists.

not sure about Springsteen, but Was (Not Was) rocks the house

I'm a not a theist, but if I were I'd have plenty of trepidation about saying something here (kudos to George). Even though I think msolga is completely sincere it reads as trappy -- c'mon little theists, post why you believe in God so all of us atheists here can rip your reasoning to shreds!!!

I don't think that's anyone's fault exactly, just kind of how it's evolved as a thread so far.

I agree with Soz, but i think they would be wrong about that. No one has jumped on George that i've seen.

back when i was a church going youngster, the bible was a good read (still is in a fable sort of way), the whole god/jesus thing didn't bother me, it was church, i couldn't stand, i could probably believe in some kind of god, but i don't think i could ever handle any organized religion

I agree with sozobe as well.
But I'd asked questions on the "Atheism" thread and gotten reasonable
answers, so I thought I'd return the favor.

Now if you'll excuse me for a bit, I have some (potentially) sociopathic work
to attend to.

Soz, I disagree that most of the atheists who have shown interest in having this discussion would tear any theist who participated to shreds. I think most of us would have made a point not to do that, actually.
And if any theists didn't feel comfortable about talking in great depth about their own, personal religious beliefs, I would certainly understand that, too.

However, some theists (a minority of theists on this site, I'm sure) have been extremely disruptive, on a continuous basis, to threads about the teaching of evolution in US schools, or the thread intended for atheists to discuss atheism .... some of their contributions have been very offensive & the continuous disruptions have made it impossible for those threads to function as intended.

I guess, my motivation for starting this thread in the first place, was out of sheer frustration about the way that those threads have not been allowed to function.: "So, OK, so if you have something you want to say about your beliefs, well here's your opportunity to say those things & stop disrupting other threads with your own agenda . Here's your opportunity to say what you actually want to say."

But of course, the very theists who I would have liked to have participated here haven't done so. Maybe they are worried that their beliefs would be treated with similar disrespect to that they've subjected atheists to? As I said, I believe that wouldn't have occurred, but it looks like we are not about to find out ...
All we received was one response from George. A theist who would never treat anyone's ideas about anything disrespectfully. Hats off to you, George. That was brave & my respect for you has increased even more (something I did not think was possible! )

But, I guess, if the conversation cannot be had, that poses the question, Why not? Is the only theist contribution to such discussions here to remain a largely negative anti-atheist one?

In case you missed it, I tried to explain "why not" above. We are asking theists to put their self integrity on the line. They have invested such "selves" in a what we argue is a questionable insurance policy. Unless they have attempted what they see as an "unsuccessful claim" they are unlikely to contemplate the possible futility of their investment.

In addition, there is the argument that what we think of as "self" is largely a product of social relationships. It would "irrational" for some theists to risk the stability of such relationships by an atheistic "rebirth", because unlike a theistic rebirth there is no psychological pay-off.

Maybe theists haven't shown up here because they don't need to discuss/explain / justify their beliefs and reasons for them. Maybe they're perfectly content and don't feel a need to share. Don't they go to church and bible meetings for that? And, yeah, maybe they don't want to be ridiculed. I totally get why they're not here.

As far as them being disruptive on other threads, they're not the only ones guilty of that.

I think it would be a boring thread, anyway, no offense to msolga or any theists out there.

fresco~

You call my belief in God "a questionable insurance policy".
I disagree. A belief in God does not necessarily require belief in an
afterlife, which is what I assume is the insurance policy.

You go on to say:
"In addition, there is the argument that what we think of as 'self' is largely
a product of social relationships."
I ain't even going there.

~George

None taken. I'm a suburban dad who works as a test engineer.
Boring is what I'm all about.

Do you think them capable ? Us Agnostics are invited too, I take it ?

G'Day, Ionus. Yeah, I believe we agnostics are invited.

I say "we" because some time ago an A2Ker named FrankApisa convinced me
that even though I believe in God, I am in fact an agnostic

Which concept of "God" do you lean toward?

Now there's an interesting story behind that......care to share ?

Insurance policies don't always require an "endowment" clause. They can protect against "the unpredictable" in this lifetime thereby facilitating a "purposeful" existence.

You may not wish to consider "the social". But "closer" religious communities which indoctrinate their children, and threaten to "shun" apostates (or worse), illustrate the the general import of my remark.

George- Well, Frank got to you too. For decades, I considered myself an atheist. Then I came across Frank, who convinced me that atheism was the other side of the coin to theism.

Where I stand now, is that I believe that basically we don't have the foggiest idea about the ultimate truths of the universe, and probably never will. If one wants to put a label on me, I like the moniker "apatheist". That is, I don't know, and I don't care. If it weren't for the folks who insist on insinuating their beliefs in the political arena, religion would be a non issue for me.

I also have an aversion to the concept of prayer. In prayer, one looks outside of oneself for solace, answers, etc. I compare this to the young child who has not yet any personal power, but who looks to his parents for answers. I think that looking within oneself is a far more mature way to deal with the problems of living.

Great question.

I lean toward a concept of God as the impetus of the universe.
To my mind God, in relation to the universe, is both immanent and
transcendant.

wow, wish i could vote this post up a thousand times