Why believe in god? The theist perspective.

Some sort of special needs Jesus.

The **** up on the Mount.

This is possibly because such people range from a 2-year Bible college to Master's in theology.

I'm also interested to know whether your perception of "sharp, awake, and interesting" includes "they tend to think like me." Some of the most interesting people I've met that I very definitely disagreed with, but had an engaging personality or strong reasons why they felt this way.

It's difficult to understand that other people's experiences can be different than yours, is it? So lemme break it down for you. Other people's experiences can be different than yours.

This means that while you may have never found any proof one way or another, that's your own failing, not necessarily a reflection on absolute truth. It doesn't mean that I haven't "gotten it yet" either, it means that you haven't the ability to imagine that someone actually can perceive that there is (or isn't) a God.

You are blindly guessing that other people blind guess about what they know.

Is 2+2 equalling 4 a blind guess? Is that magnets attract metal and repel each other a blind guess? Now, a skeptic could say that we don't truly know anything, and as someone who doubts established science in some areas, I'd sometimes agree. But, some things are able to be proved by experiences or testing. You can prove that two sets of two apples is roughly twice the amount (you can have some goofball talk about base 8 or 12 or whatever, and try to tell you it's not really four but for a typical math problem, yes, it is) . You can indeed show that magnets do their thing.
There are ways to know what you know.

So, depending on whether you are talking to a local small town cleric or the pope (notice lack of capitalization), ministers don't just decide one day that they believe in God and voila they are priests. They go to school for this. They get credentials. They learn how to chant Latin and Greek, they learn various other disciplines. My dad has an M Div, having studied about as much as you can. He can give sermons that talk about obscure words from Greek, and he also has a lesser degree (they usually want you to study two languages, plus have another discipline so you aren't all priest) in Marriage & Family Therapy.

Sorry, my Kindle crapped out and wouldn't type more than that.

As I was saying, my dad has an M Div. Meanwhile, down the street, we have a Methodist or Baptist priest, who probably took two years of Bible college. They have just enough to perform weddings and funerals, but aside from doctrine, you'd probably find more in common with them than my dad. Just don't expect interesting conversations because they can't really debate theology.

So you find my ideas interesting?

Well it seems so, because you seem incapable of the idea that it's possible to know of God. Hence the term blindly guess.

To be fair to you, it is possible not to be able to know something. We can know the Sol is not the only star in our galaxy.
But we not be sure whether the geocentrists or the heliocentrists are right, because as far as I know, owning and using a spaceship around other people is largely banned. So basically only NASA (and equivalents) are likely to make a trip outside, get the right perspective (if you are within Earth's orbit, it would appear Earth is still), and if you don't trust their words, short of doing it yourself, it is difficult or impossible to verify. Also if you have the wrong perspective, you might be seeing an optical illusion (like the Earth orbiting the sun).

There are things that it is impossible to know because you are too close to them. But religion is not one of them. It is possible to know that there is an existence out there that humors our personal beliefs.

A person watching the skies for UFOs 60 years will see lights in the sky.

If there is any reality to what they believe, they will experience it.

Fun fact, there is evidence of past lives. The Hindus are right. As a seeker, I have also found someone out there that showed me my path.

A person watching the skies for floating porcupines for 2 minutes will see lights in the sky...if it is not cloudy.

What in the hell are you saying here?

If there is no reality to what they "believe" or blindly guess...they may well think they have experienced it.

And there is almost no way they can tell the difference.

What Bulma and I are saying is that there is Reality that you have either not experienced or rejected. We are not making a blind guess about God.

So we had a gal on one of my dad's churches.

Her friend was probably clinically insane and doodled during his sermons. She would typically tell my dad "I don't understand" after my dad gave a sermon that was perfectly clear to everyone else with any sense.

My dad walked away with the impression that she damned well did understand, but didn't want to accept what was said to her.

You see, in religion, we sometimes tell stories about other people called midrash or parable. These stories have characters and events, and may be true or not, but they are designed to teach something through drawing connections.

I tell long stories, and you say you don't understand. Or is it that you don't want to make those connections?

Quote:

A person watching the skies for floating porcupines for 2 minutes will see lights in the sky...if it is not cloudy.

What in the hell are you saying here?

If there is no reality to what they "believe" or blindly guess...they may well think they have experienced it.

And there is almost no way they can tell the difference.

Stars are stars. Most stars don't go in a straight line and fly around.

The point being that reality sometimes supports our beliefs.

Nobody is explaining what God as if we all have the same idea.

Nobody is explaining what God as if we all have the same idea.

coluber2001 wrote:

Nobody is explaining what God as if we all have the same idea.

In the context of my discussion with Frank a god is one who can create something out of nothing.
In the context of my discussion with Frank, God is the "I AM" Who has revealed Himself first through the Jewish people and more completely to all people when the Second Person of the Trinity came down to earth to die for our sins.

Which is the same definition I have (aside from the last bit).

Question:
1. What does a physical universe need to operate?
(Energy exceeding entropy, lack of chaos, laws of physics)
2. What is the source of energy, order, and what brought about the laws of physics?
(At this point, atheists already cannot answer honestly, so I'll give them "A nonphysical source of energy, possibly from another universe")
3. Turtles all the way down. Where did that universe come from, how was it created without invoking the same laws of physics, and why is it not at a state of rising entropy?
(At this point, atheists cannot answer honestly, even with my gift. There are now not one but two universes that need physical laws, energy, and matter in logical state. I invoke a supernatural cause, since no natural cause can endlessly produce the energy needed to operate a universe, much less two. It is not sufficient that thus simply be a nonphysical source of energy, byt a being that bypasses and/or transcends these laws in order to create them)

In your second post, you seem tohave typoed and said "I may not exist." Should we all scream, "We don't believe in you, Mabh"?
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