"Inappropriate" history

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this.

well Eva, I suppose this could be a debate that might continue for decades without resolution. It's probably a good idea that the Obama strategy is to continue/escalate the use of drones in places like Afghanistan and Pakistan where a suspected terrorist having dinner in someone's home with children and elders is blown to shreds of bodies and no one back home sees it on the evening news. Personally, I think the horrors of war should be front and center so that, just maybe, our society might consider more carefully before engaging. But, I realize that's just my opinion.

There are books I read as a child of a certain age, that did not disturb me at the time.
However, some of them came to mind even a few years after that, while still a child, and I was deeply deeply toubled.

I can't give an educated opinion on this subject, except to say that something that may not bother you initially, may do so in the future.

There are things I regret I read as a child, and wish I had waited until I was older.

I understand, and I, too, wish there was a way to shock people sufficiently that they would do everything possible to avoid war. But I don't think it's that simple. To begin with, the people who make the decisions to go to war are too far removed from those who will die.

WE are the people who make the decisions.

OK... so I'm a little confused.

Was the librarian stating that the subject matter was inappropriate?
Or that the it was inappropriate to give Mo a book with the subject matter? And if so... why?

Not enough info.

There's a big difference.

I believe it's the same as some kids watching TV programmes that I feel are inappropriate... whereas many folk think there is no harm in them at all.

Same for video game / xbox etc... age 3+, 7+. 11+ 12+ 13+ 15+ 16+ 18+...

I think you have to go by what you believe your child is able to deal with.

S-boy is 13.5 - earlier this year he read "The Boy In Striped Pajama's" for his English, watching chapters of the book on DVD - discussing it in school etc. It affected him A LOT... because this was REAL. History is REAL.

Not make - believe. not pretend guns or ghostbusting contraptions - but real, nasty, deadly, killing, with pictures and sounds...

The games kids play etc, in the kids minds, and all the Alien stuff and whatnot - are sci-fi - unreal... make believe... no matter how realistic some of them look

but

When S-boy learned, at 13 yrs old what REAL things happened, he was horrified, still is, still cries about it (I wrote about it on A2K as it was happening)... it still haunts him, it is also one of those movies he will rewatch, and reread the book - it had a huge impact

so anyhoo - my point is - each kid is different - Mo has an Uncle in the military and therefore his interest in what's happening there and history etc may be something that is something he can deal with.

Personally, I would be careful - Mo, in particular, has a great imagination - therefore, when reading real events, his imagination could run wild. It may affect him differently. I would certainly be with him when he discovering new books... he's only 10.

He also has attachment issues. Reading things about the holocaust etc... seeing the pics... I dunno Boomer - tread carefully in my honest opinion, contrary to most others I would imagine.

Obviously I have no idea what MO's like

I just know that with some kids - when reality sets in, innocence is lost - and yep, that's part of growing up..

but then watching the news and seeing so many people dying in a war in this day and age makes him VERY angry and very upset... so maybe S-boy is overly sensitive - or maybe he needs to keep his innocence a little bit longer. He his going to be taking history for his GCSE - fully expecting to hear his worries and fears about the past! But he is fascinated with Egyptology and .... The Civil War


As to the librarian - which of course I naturally digressed from - in a school here, a librarian would not hand out any book just to any child just because they asked for it... I guess it depends what kind of book it was and what that person knew to be in it. If it were that bad or "inappropriate", then it begs the question as to why it's in the library... I don't know your age groups there - so our school libraries would be different.

Of course, in a public library, despite all your constitutional rules out there, I don't believe that if my or any young child went into a public library and asked for any book that the librarians considered inappropriate for a young child... without checking it out myself first, I would probably be quite pleased they had drawn it to my attention. We're all different as parents. If I thought it was appropriate and my child would not be disaffected by it, I would get the book out.

Yes, children have rights, but they wouldn't be able to get any kind of book from a library... some books would be highly inappropriate. A 9-10 year old requesting the history of the Karma Sutra for instance with pictures!

Maybe check with the librarian about why she/he considered it inappropriate material... perhaps if there were inappropriate scenes in the book, she/he could have been right. If it was inappropriate because it was about war/ that war / whatever... well, that's a whole different argument.




As an aside: Tonight on the TV News - a field where Prince Harry stood placing a wooden cross with a poppy on and 35000 other crosses with a picture of every solider's face on... S-boy was pretty dang angry about that too!!!!!!!!!!! Kids being killed in war. Pretty distressing... he's 13!

Every child is different - only YOU know what MO could or couldn't deal with or understand and not burden his mind with as imgination turns into reality as he gets older.

He's a young pup.
(if that don't make sense, well, heck, too tired to explain further)

When i was a child in the 1950s, there wasn't much on television, and one of the ways they came up with programs was to broadcast film of World War Two--over and over again. The March of Time, You Were There and such programs gave us the story of the heroic generation which had preceeded us again and again. Inevitably, they ended with pictures of the survivors of the death camps in Germany, and the equally emaciated American POWs in Japan.

It would be difficult to say what effect such things had on us, since there is no point of comparison. We all saw them, and i don't know how one would figure out how it would have been if we had not.

I understand your point, but I hope it would take more evidence then a 'suspected' terrorist. Also, there were people visiting the World Trade Centers, simply having breakfast, on 9/11/2001.

That's does not excuse other barbaric action. The question is: How do we stop man's desire to obtain justice, wealth, vindication, etc. through violence? It seems to be a strong part of our nature.

But I also agree, hiding it and pretending we are above such action is wrong.

relevant how?

I don't know why she thought it was inappropriate, Izzie.

In my opinion he was asking for a history book. I was wondering what could be inappropriate about history.

Yes, my brother is in the military and I know that's part of the reason Mo likes military books. My brother is a very high ranking officer (3 star general) so Mo has a bit of a distorted view on the military. I think it's important for Mo to know that the military is not all big houses and staff and people calling you sir like he's seen when we have visited my brother.

But really I think he's just like most boys who find war stories interesting and exciting. Right now we're reading a book about WW 2 soldiers who were awarded the Medal of Honor -- that's why he wants a book on Iwo Jima. Hiroshima and Nagasaki came up a while back when he wanted to know how the war ended.

Yep.... perhaps popping along with him to the library and asking this librarian the reasoning behind it, would ease your mind.

Like I say, not knowing the age ranges in the school, but perhaps it would have been what the school considered an inapproriate age topic. All kids are different - maybe appropriate for Mo.


Sboy also been learning about Henry the VIII and 'off with her head', Robin Hood, head on spikes... to him, a bit like the movie Zulu etc - it's doesn't appear real.

Military stuff in this day and age does become very real and there is chance they desensitise, very quick - terrorism , death, disaster, floods, murders, bodies, it's all over the news...

let's have some good news please... the world is presented to the young folk as doom and gloom at times!

sometimes the movies I dislike (sci fi) would be far more preferable than real events - but hey, we can't wrap children in cotton wool... and tho they may be little - their enquiring minds need to know

Good luck - let us know what the librarians rationale on this was. She could just be a bit uppity (me - librarian authority, you - little 10yr old student) - or she may have had reasons but was "insensitively challenged" - you can put her straight on what you believe is appropriate or inappropriate for your young man

Take care Boomer. x

Maybe we stop it by not telling kids it's inappropriate to read about history.

The librarian in question was a substitute. The school has just now hired a permanent librarian after the regular one retired last year. I don't have anyone to ask. I just thought it was interesting.

We don't watch the news, we read the newspaper. I don't think kids need to watch the news because it isn't really "news" here at all anymore. They don't even do current events in school anymore because "it won't be on The Test".

Meanwhile, the kids can check this book out for weeks at a time...

And the wording could almost be interpreted as a warning not to piss him off unless you want to be RAPED!

I saw at ten (and still have) a booklet from, I think, the army air force - but I'd have to find it and check the source - with photos from the days Dachau was entered by the allies. Grim, very grim. But seeing that was part of the formation of me as a person.

Maybe u shoud have read about Pearl Harbor and turned out better.





David

Wonders what the M rating is on the bible....no, really I'm wondering that right now.

Would it clear things up for you if I said that the episodes of barely contained murderous rage had nothing to do with reading Hiroshima in the third grade? Those things are totally unrelated. I'm not even sure why I mentioned it, except that sometimes I get so ANGRY!!!!

I did assume they were related...glad they're not! Of course, now I wonder what the anger IS related to. You're not making this any easier, Joe.

http://www.thestar.com/searchresults?AssetType=image&stype=genSearch&q=jonathan%20hobin&r=all:1
A Photographer from Ottawa, Jonathon Hobin, has a new series of "controversial" pictures called "In the Playroom". These are staged photos of children re-enacting recent new events.
His first series was "Mother Goose, The darker side of childhood".

In the Mother Goose stories, children were often the victims of terrible people and/or circumstances. These stories were told to warn kids of the dangers of their world and what could happen to them if they didn't follow the rules. These stories are scary but we still read them to our kids.
We may try and shield our kids but they see stuff and internalize it. Children at play often incorporate these scenes and perhaps try to rationalize what they've witnessed.