12
   

Violence and Hatred and our acceptance of it...

 
 
NAACP
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Nov, 2010 08:07 am
@Ionus,
Seems like it comes down to the fear of the unknown......
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Nov, 2010 08:14 am
@NAACP,
Quote:
Seems like it comes down to the fear of the unknown......
I think you are right, it is fear...but I would have put it more as fear of failure. I can see how the unknown could be substituted without too much hassle.
NAACP
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Nov, 2010 08:17 am
@Ionus,
Failure in what way?
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Nov, 2010 08:25 am
@NAACP,
The main aim in life is survival. Whilst this is obvious for the individual animal, it is not so obvious in genetics and especially picking a mate. Stress is the recognition of the possibility of failure to survive by an individual. Choosing a mate is a lot easier for an animal than a human. They simply breed with the best available going by general criteria of health and strength, and if it dies, then bad luck. Try again. Humans are far more complex. Fear of failure to breed correctly, because of the extended time to reach adulthood, produces great anxiety about choosing a mate. This is a complex subject, involving sperm wars, males caring for outsiders children, female fear of violence, etc....HUGE topic.
NAACP
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Nov, 2010 08:28 am
@Ionus,
I see.........well said. I enjoyed reading that.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Nov, 2010 01:43 am
Violence is an essential part of our lives.

It is an essential part of our evolutionary development as a species.

It is expressed, over and over and over again, in the arts which our conceit tells us separates from other species.

You can love the sun and fear and despise the night, but both will be with you forever.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Nov, 2010 07:17 am
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:

All competitive ideas once frustrated, lead to violence. We will never eradicate competition.
Violence needs to be redefined, and you need to resist using the word never... We have, all socieites have all grown out of highly controlled societies where the want of technology made social control of behavior essential, and morality justified behavior within the community that we would desire universally and justified behavior internationally we would universally condemn was the norm.... Violence is normal, natural, and some times required, and desired... We can control the circumstances where violence is the natural course... And we have to understand that some forms of violence are not individual, nor at all sudden... If the general injustice of one group against another does injury, is it not violence simply because their is no blood??? And what is the result of violence, but more violence and injustice... We are never going to control injustice by attacking injustice or violent people with violence... Reform society... Give justice through just forms of relationship, and violence will end... To a point, that is, to a point where it can be productively channeled toward the good of society...
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Nov, 2010 05:05 am
@Fido,
Quote:
Violence needs to be redefined
Why ? Changing definitions of words will only lead to other words being used. From Negro to Balck to Afro-American and back to Black again. Not liking a word does not change anything unless you are a PC thug.
Quote:
We can control the circumstances where violence is the natural course...
Violence comes from emotions and instincts...we can no more control that then we can levitate. You have expressed a dream where lions will lay with lambs.....good idea if the lion never gets hungry and the lamb can overcome its shattered nerves.
Quote:
Reform society...
Ah ! Why didnt anyone else think of that ?
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Nov, 2010 06:07 am
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:

Quote:
Violence needs to be redefined
Why ? Changing definitions of words will only lead to other words being used. From Negro to Balck to Afro-American and back to Black again. Not liking a word does not change anything unless you are a PC thug.
Quote:
We can control the circumstances where violence is the natural course...
Violence comes from emotions and instincts...we can no more control that then we can levitate. You have expressed a dream where lions will lay with lambs.....good idea if the lion never gets hungry and the lamb can overcome its shattered nerves.
Quote:
Reform society...
Ah ! Why didnt anyone else think of that ?
Violence should be redefined because on the one hand we do not have a word for the slow motion violence that is done to the enviroment and humanity in between the periods of extreme violence we do to both... I think violence is clearly a matter of intent, and if your intent is to do injury then it is violence...I think any act affecting anyone not motivated by love or general altruism is violence... If it is not love, then what is it??? What is not love??? I am not suggesting hate as the opposite of love, but that, not love is the opposite of love, the contradiction of love and of human bondage, and when we accept not love as motivation -that violence appears natural to us...

All human motivation comes from emotions and instincts... All reason now serves irrational goals... People may well decide to behave as they do now even if made aware of their irrational drives to violence, injustice, and injury...And clearly, people raised with violence, numb to violence, calloused to their own sympathy and empathy will take a long time to return to humanity, but it can be done... Soldiers often suffer their crimes, are sullen and withdrawn, taking out their pain on themselves and others, and some times they come home, have a good cry and get it out... We become more animal the moment we justify hateful behavior, or injustice... People do not become more human with the application of reason... It is in getting our emotions right, in not hating life, humanity, and ourselves that we begin to know goodness... When our religions and economies and politics justify hatred and violence, clearly we have an uphill journey; but not an impossible one... People who would change the world should first change themselves...

That is the first step, to realize we are violent and hateful, and that we express violence in many different ways because injury is the intent or gain at the expense of others... The problem is not only others... It is long term, and intractable... Knowledge is key, and being able to discuss it, and we have no word other than injustice for slow motion violence, but since the aim and result are the same; and violence is certainly injustice, why should they carry different labels???

By reforming society, I do not refer to the frustrating, meaningless term as we have it; but to changing forms all together with revolution... I mean, economy, religion, and government; even education as forms are presented to us as a self supporting whole... All must be changed together as the fastest and most complete method of changing humanity... To change ourselves we must change the society that is perverting our purpose... Consider, that America was once love universally, and now is nearly univerally hated, and all for the wealth of a few...It is crazy, and we hate each other as well... What will it take to regain our humanity and place in the world as the light of liberty...
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Nov, 2010 08:36 pm
@Fido,
How is competition going to exist in your world of non-violence ?
Quote:
People who would change the world should first change themselves...
Have you changed yourself ?

Quote:
Consider, that America was once love universally, and now is nearly univerally hated,
Nonsense ! Your men and women in the military are doing a great job of being ambassadors. Its the tourist I would line up against the wall. Not everybody is well represented in the nightly news.

Quote:
What will it take to regain our humanity and place in the world as the light of liberty...
Humanity is not a list of good points without any bad. You never lost your humanity. You never were a light of liberty...that is propaganda...liberty lights up everywhere it lives.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Nov, 2010 12:13 am
@Fido,
America is universally hated?

Where the hell did you come up with that tripe?

BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Nov, 2010 01:36 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
America is universally hated?

Where the hell did you come up with that tripe?


And if true who would give a **** one way or another?

Who neeed love when fear will do?
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Nov, 2010 02:12 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Violence is an essential part of our lives.

It is an essential part of our evolutionary development as a species.

Yes, there must be death so that there can be birth, things must be distroyed so that new things can be built, humans must be tested with adversity so that we can be strong and nimble. The shadow of soul must have its expression through violence and cruelty so that we can remain whole and unrepressed.

But on the flip side it is only our will to seek God, the better sides of ourselves, that keep us on this earth.
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Nov, 2010 06:13 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
In this country we all hate each other, though the other is as much America as ourselves... As for the rest, you should not confuse envy or jealousy with love, or that people who come here out of desparation do so out of love, or feel love for us in the process of achieving their success... We use our sunse of moral superiority to use the world, peddle more death and destruction than any other country, and cannot even manage to achieve the moral goods for which our government was created, but suffer it because we can imagine no other... So, yes'; we are hated, and the fact that people imitatate does not mean we are not hated... Imitation may be a form of flattery, but it can also arise out of contrmpt.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Nov, 2010 08:05 am
@Fido,
Silly rabbit we had saved the human civilation rear end a numbers of times in the last 100 year and what more who give a **** what others think of us?

Oh I am also sure you are correct and we had kill more people then Hitler of Stalin together.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Nov, 2010 02:54 pm
@Fido,
Fido wrote:

In this country we all hate each other, though the other is as much America as ourselves... As for the rest, you should not confuse envy or jealousy with love, or that people who come here out of desparation do so out of love, or feel love for us in the process of achieving their success... We use our sunse of moral superiority to use the world, peddle more death and destruction than any other country, and cannot even manage to achieve the moral goods for which our government was created, but suffer it because we can imagine no other... So, yes'; we are hated, and the fact that people imitatate does not mean we are not hated... Imitation may be a form of flattery, but it can also arise out of contrmpt.


I'm sure there are millions of people who would say they hate America and some (like you) who would deny it but feel it anyway. This hardly means America is universally hated.

I haven't made the assertion that as stating America is universally hated is tripe; stating it is universally loved is accurate.

I don't love Thailand, Belgium or Bolivia, but I certainly don't hate them.
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Nov, 2010 03:01 pm
I think the US is universally loved and hated, sometimes by people in the same breath.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Nov, 2010 04:04 pm
@Ceili,
Ceili wrote:

I think the US is universally loved and hated, sometimes by people in the same breath.
Part of the problem is that we are not all one people; not a nation at all... People are justified to love and hate us. but they more often hate us who see through us, who see the hypocracy of our words beside our actions...

We condemned Lenin for wanting to export revolution, but what was the Monroe doctrine about??? We may have used it to turn those people into slaves in Banana republics, but that was not its intended purpose... Once the counter revolution set in here, the thought of exporting liberty was quietly canned... Now, our largest export, behind food, still, is war materials.... And yet we are now trying to drag a Russian into court as a supporter of terroism and exporter of arms... Our terror is acceptible, and theirs is not...
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Nov, 2010 04:08 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Fido wrote:

In this country we all hate each other, though the other is as much America as ourselves... As for the rest, you should not confuse envy or jealousy with love, or that people who come here out of desparation do so out of love, or feel love for us in the process of achieving their success... We use our sunse of moral superiority to use the world, peddle more death and destruction than any other country, and cannot even manage to achieve the moral goods for which our government was created, but suffer it because we can imagine no other... So, yes'; we are hated, and the fact that people imitatate does not mean we are not hated... Imitation may be a form of flattery, but it can also arise out of contrmpt.


I'm sure there are millions of people who would say they hate America and some (like you) who would deny it but feel it anyway. This hardly means America is universally hated.

I haven't made the assertion that as stating America is universally hated is tripe; stating it is universally loved is accurate.

I don't love Thailand, Belgium or Bolivia, but I certainly don't hate them.

What is to hate??? I understand us, and do not fear us... Even the right wing yahoos of the republican party are more reasonable than any foreigners I know of... I do not fear them when they are given the time to figure things out... I do fear those who use fear to manipulate the right, who cast offense in the role of defense, and make enemies everywhere in the name of American interests... The best defense is many friends and few enemies... We are taking the opposite course...That course is not at all in our interests...
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Nov, 2010 04:35 pm
I don't think most people hate the residents, just the government. That's why I said both loved and hated, but then again, who doesn't hate their own government.
 

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