Calculate?

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I wonder whether it should be "calculating".

What is "the cost"? The cost to calculate the energy?

Context:

The key to complexity is that these few remaining genes weigh almost nothing. Calculate the energy needed to support a normal bacterial genome in thousands of copies and the cost is prohibitive. Do it for the tiny mitochondrial genome and the cost is easily affordable, as shown in the Nature paper. The difference is the amount of DNA that could be supported in the nucleus, not as repetitive copies of the same old genes, but as the raw material for new evolution.

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@oristarA,

Calculate is correct; it is the verb of the sentence. Cost refers to the energy required to support normal bacterial genome in thousands of copies. This is what you calculated in the first part of the sentence. Another way to write it would be "If you calculate the energy needed to support a normal bacterial genome in thousands of copies, you would see that the cost is prohibitive."

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@engineer,

engineer wrote:

Another way to write it would be "If you calculate the energy needed to support a normal bacterial genome in thousands of copies, you would see that the cost is prohibitive."

Another way, and also a better way.

2 Replies

Thank you both.

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@contrex,

But it's a common device in English:

"Spare the rod, and spoil the child."

"Lose your ticket, and you'll have to walk home."

"Marry in haste, repent at leisure."

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@McTag,

McTag wrote:

But it's a common device in English:

... for short, pithy sayings, yes, but in other situations it can make for awkward disjointed prose.

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@contrex,

Quote:

Another way, and also a better way.

Piffle, again.

You've changed the meaning, the level of emotion that the writer wished to convey. It's another way, but it's hardly a better way.

1 Reply

@JTT,

JTT wrote:

Quote:
Another way, and also a better way.

Piffle, again.

You've changed the meaning, the level of emotion that the writer wished to convey. It's another way, but it's hardly a better way.

Example 1 - original text:

Calculate the energy needed to support a normal bacterial genome in thousands of copies and the cost is prohibitive.

Example 2 - that I felt was "better":

If you calculate the energy needed to support a normal bacterial genome in thousands of copies you will see that the cost is prohibitive.

I changed engineer's "would" to "will".

Please explain what you mean about changing "meaning" and "level of emotion". I am rather puzzled.

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Laugh, and the world laughs with you.

I suppose brevity is the essence, but what's wrong with that? It's easily understood.

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@McTag,

McTag wrote:

Laugh, and the world laughs with you.

I suppose brevity is the essence, but what's wrong with that? It's easily understood.

I think we are at cross purposes. I meant that this construction:

action, predicted consequence

e.g. Marry in haste, repent at leisure, buy cheap, buy twice, etc,

works well enough if the number of words is not too great, in fact the brevity serves to hammer home the message. However I that it can get unwieldy (and confuse English learners) and give an impression of hasty writing and poor editing if it is used in long complex statements.

Marry without due and mature consideration, for example because of sexual lust or unresolved loneliness or self esteem issues, later on have ample cause to regret the haste with which the union was contracted.

Calculate the average dose energy needed to discumbobbulate the zygote anterior membrane over repeated multiple flange operations, and the cost is prohibitive.

See what I mean? I accept that it is a matter of taste.

In fact the sentence proposed by the OP seems to suggest that the cost that is prohibitive is that of the calculation.

0 Replies

@contrex,

If I were to say to a body, and this really is only an example, Contrex. It is NOT pointed at you.

Grow a brain.

OR

If you would grow a brain, ...

you can't see any difference in intensity, in the emotive sense they each hold.

What is the imperative if not imperative?

Get out versus If you would get out

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@JTT,

JTT wrote:

Grow a brain.

OR

If you would grow a brain, ...

you can't see any difference in intensity, in the emotive sense they each hold.

What is the imperative if not imperative?

Get out versus If you would get out

What emotion? We're talking about an extract from a science article, for God's sake, where the author says "Perform this calculation, (to) understand this thing"

I think your use of "would" is a bit nonstandard/AmE there, and we're not discussing the simple imperative. That's when you say "Do x" as a command or a piece of advice. What we are talking about are constructions of this type:

"Do x, experience result y"

What we are actually saying is

"If you do x, then you will/may/might/could* experience result y"

*depending on context.

I don't know how to put this any more simply.

2 Replies

@contrex,

Quote:

I think your use of "would" is a bit nonstandard/AmE there,

No time now, just a quick heads up,

No, it isn't, C.

Google exact phrase search, UK region only for "If you would"
About 30,100,000 results

0 Replies

I really do think we are talking at cross purposes here, JTT.

1 Reply

@contrex,

Quote:

I think your use of "would" is a bit nonstandard/AmE there,

No, C, you were trying to make a point about English grammar, a point on which you are sorely mistaken. You're just repeating another bit of prescriptive nonsense.

I'll get to the imperative portion of this thread when I've got a moment.

0 Replies

JTT is riding his descriptive hobbyhorse. Nothing to see folks, move along.

1 Reply

@contrex,

All you have to do, C, is explain your position.

If you could you would, but you can't so you won't.

0 Replies

@contrex,

The key to complexity is that these few remaining genes weigh almost nothing. Calculate the energy needed to support a normal bacterial genome in thousands of copies and the cost is prohibitive. Do it for the tiny mitochondrial genome and the cost is easily affordable, as shown in the Nature paper. The difference is the amount of DNA that could be supported in the nucleus, not as repetitive copies of the same old genes, but as the raw material for new evolution.

Quote:

What emotion? We're talking about an extract from a science article, for God's sake, where the author says "Perform this calculation, (to) understand this thing"

... and we're not discussing the simple imperative. That's when you say "Do x" as a command or a piece of advice. What we are talking about are constructions of this type:

"Do x, experience result y"

What other imperative is there in English but the imperative? I've underlined all the examples of the imperative. 'perform' is as imperative as the two 'do's.

It really doesn't matter where some piece of English is written, the structures that are used convey both meaning and feelings.

Quote:

What we are actually saying is

"If you do x, then you will/may/might/could* experience result y"

*depending on context.

I don't know how to put this any more simply.

Quote:

Example 1 - original text:

Calculate the energy needed to support a normal bacterial genome in thousands of copies and the cost is prohibitive.

Example 2 - that I felt was "better":

If you calculate the energy needed to support a normal bacterial genome in thousands of copies you will see that the cost is prohibitive.

I changed engineer's "would" to "will".

Please explain what you mean about changing "meaning" and "level of emotion". I am rather puzzled.

With your example 2, you break one of the cardinal rules of prescription; "excess words", though that's nonsense too.

Changing engineer's 'would' to 'will' also changes the emotive meaning, not dramatically but it does.

I think we can see that the author didn't need to, or want to mince words. That person used the imperative 'do' in the following sentence.

0 Replies

@McTag,

Quote:

But it's a common device in English:

"Spare the rod, and spoil the child."

"Lose your ticket, and you'll have to walk home."

"Marry in haste, repent at leisure."

These examples are not imperatives.
It's mislaeading to think of this construction, therefore, purely in terms of the imperative. It's more universal than that.

1 Reply

@McTag,

Quote:

These examples are not imperatives.
It's misleading to think of this construction, therefore, purely in terms of the imperative. It's more universal than that.

Well then, I'm at a loss as to what to call them. I may be wrong but might you not be confusing terminology and pragmatics.

1 Reply

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