The United States should back Palestine instead of Israel.

I don't want to see war anywhere -- but war is what we've got over there -- and they should be the ones dealing with it.

We should get the hell out of the Middle East -- and force them all to face up to the fact that they will have to either deal with each other or fight to the death.

The nonsense of us in the middle stopping them from fighting is as idiotic as it would be for an individual to continue to stand between two guys intent on duking it out.

In those instances, you might note, at some point the intervening person has to realize that the two parties he is trying to separate are too goddam stupid to finally back away from each other -- and he has got to finally let 'em have a go at it.

If Israel can make its situation better by "wiping out every single Palestinian" -- let them do it. Frankly, I don't think that would do anything worthwhile for Israel -- and would eventually lead with certainty to its death.

But right now, with the US playing this silly role, they have absolutely no incentive whatsoever to deal realistically.

Frank, the power differential there would be more akin to a man beating a baby. Would you stand by and watch that? There is certainly plenty of room for argument about who's mistake brought the situation to a boil in the first place, but even if we all agreed on that; the problems would remain the same. Israel could easily wipe out Palestine and probably most of the Middle East for that matter, but does anyone really want to see that?
If the US really wants to stand for freeing oppressed peoples, than the whole Middle East needs a face lift. In most Middle East countries, friend and foe, fully 50% of the population suffers horrible oppression (the women), if not the populace in its entirety. As these nations develop technology they become more and more dangerous to the rest of the world. Sooner or later this is going to need to be addressed. It's my opinion that the sooner we put out the fires the less will be burned.

Incidentally, as a manager in an aggressive sales firm I've been that proverbial man in the middle. Almost invariably I prevented violence from escalating. The ability to help comes with an inherent responsibility to do so.

There is only so much of that "man in the middle" that makes sense.

As an ex bartender who has had to be in the middle many times, I can tell you that at some point, it makes more sense to let both parties know that no one is going to stand betweeen them anymore.

If Israel can give a knockout punch -- let 'em.

To be honest, I don't think they can.

I feel ya Frank. Sometimes they'll fight no matter what, and sometimes they're both just posers in the first place. In this case; I suspect the former. Somebody is gonna get a whoopin before this is over. Unless of course, a giant bouncer convinces them he'll whoop them both if they don't knock it off. The more times a bouncer gives a whoopin, the quicker the word spreads and pretty soon the bouncer gets to just kick back with the women. Bartender, can I get another beer?

I think we are making two big mistakes in this thing, Bill.

One, we are prolonging the agony. I they are determined to fight to the death -- we oughta let 'em.

Two, we are feigning even-handedness when it is blantantly obvious that is not the case. By doing that, we look to almost everyone else on the planet except the Israelis.

Would Israel be able to deliver a knockout punch, without the US supplying them warplanes, tanks, helicopters, ammunition and money?

Yes Wilso, because we already have.
Good points Frank. If we're going to play cop we should take of the kid gloves and let them know we're serious. The way I see it; we shouldn't have to blow too many more houses down before crying wolf starts working again. Only a fool fights in a burning house... And you have to fear the beast that bites.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with pretty much everything you all have said here.

The US *does* have an interest in Israel and in the Middle East. The best thing we can do is support peace and Democracy in Israel and the other Middle Eastern countries.

The US has had a big part in creating this mess. It is our obligation to offer a way out.

The US is the only country that can pressure Israel to offer a viable state. The US is the only country that can present an offer that will be acceptable to the Palestinians.

I am really putting my hope in the Geneva Accord. If the US can put its wait behind this initiative -- which is led by middle-easterners -- we may have a way to a decent solution.

... and please stop this bigoted opportunistic puerile Islamic-bashing ...

Letting racism affect national policy is never a good idea.

I am a bit confused about what people mean by "kill all the Palestinians".

How many people here support genocide?

But...but...but..it isn't genocide if its just those towel wearin' Moooooslimmms, is it? After all...they ain't like good people..y'know...Krischuns! They's eeeevilllll! Thems the anty-kryste, they is! Why, I 'll be they don't even shop at Wal Mart!

Off your medication again, huh, Bob?

Not enough Gluhwein!

Goerge Washington advised us to not form alliances with other nations, and not to get involved in other nation's disputes. For about the first hundred years of our independence we followed this advice fairly closely. Unfortunately, over the past hundred years or so we've thrown caution to the wind, and have been sticking our big fat Yankee noses where they don't belong.

I'm not sure anymore what we should be doing with respect to foreign policy. But if I had to choose between supporting the Israelis or the Palestinians, I suport the Israelis.

You don't get it. The chioce is not between supporting the Israelis or the Palestinians.

The choice is between violence or Peace. Sharon's government and his career depends heavily on Hamas and other Extremists continuing violence. Hamas and the other extremist depend heavily on the fact that a repressive violent government remains in power in Israel.

Sharon and Hamas. They are in bed together. Every time Hamas kills Israeli children Sharon profits. Every time another Israeli missle strike kill Palestinian children Hamas profits. They both are fulfilled by each thrust of their violent coitus.

There is a group of reasonable Israeli's and Palestinians who are trying to end this ridiculous cycle of violence. They have proposed what everyone knows is the only reasonable way to have peace. Each side will need to make concessions. I refer to the new Geneva Accords worked out by moderate Israelis and Palestinians.

But look at how agressively both the Sharon Government and the Extremists on the Palestian sides had reacted against this plan!

For Hamas and Sharon peace is unthinkable. This is not surprising since their very existance is based on rage and hate and violence,

The US and any reasonable person should support peace. We should oppose any act of violence and repression from either side. We should strongly support the people who are actually trying to change this cycle.

But realize that the people in power on both sides dont wan't change. They are doing just fine with the way things are right now.

Just to address InfraBlue...I have said it before, and I will repeat. While I support the idea of Israel as a Jewish homeland for personal reasons, I absolutely do not support the current administration. I wouldn't go so far as to say that the US back the Palestinians over Israel though. It wouldn't make political sense. However....left on their own, Israel under it's current leadership probably would slaughter all the Palestinians, something I would not want to see happen. Diplomacy is needed at this time, and I think that if the US is tying Israel's hands as best they can, well, that's what needs to be done. Have there been violations? I'm certain there have been. However, I think at this point in time, it is premature to ask Israel to answer for them. Things like this require time, and I believe that at some point, Sharon will be asked to answer for his crimes, most likely by the US. I also agree with Frank, the US really shouldn't be in the Middle East at all, except for the fact that they were instrumental in creating the climate there in the first place, barring centuries of racial hatred in the area (oil interests). Christians, Muslims and Jews all claim Jerusalem as a holy place, a homeland. Christians had the Vatican, Muslims run about 98% of the land surrounding Israel, so after WWII, the Jews won. Deal with it. I'm for concessions to the Palestinians, but I do not think that Israel should be given to them outright.

ebrown_p is making a lot of sense

meanwhile, from one of the two "bad" sides ebrown is referring to, this sad anecdote:



It's sad to hear Jews, of all people, propose such rhetorics ... :-(

Sharon/Arafat
The leaders are not part of the solution, rather the main part of the problem. The won't live forever.

As usual, the extremists of both sides get the upper hand.