9
   

Teachers Unions - Outdated?

 
 
boomerang
 
  3  
Reply Fri 8 Oct, 2010 11:00 am
I'm still waiting for a decent argument, from a reliable source, showing that NCLB has improved education....

Since the only thing that's even approached an argument in favor suggests that graduation rates have increasedI respond with:

Quote:
Graduation rates

In drafting NCLB, Congress recognized that holding schools accountable for their test scores could create perverse incentives to “push out” low-performing students; that is, the easiest way to increase test scores and meet progress goals could be to encourage or force low-performing students out of the school before they take the test. To ensure that AYP “shall not be met or exceeded based solely on increased dropouts,” 4 as noted in the Congressional Committee Report accompanying the law, the legislation was intended to require high schools to also meet state-set graduation goals to make AYP.

Unfortunately, there are significant flaws in the calculation, reporting, and role of graduation rates as implemented by the U.S. Department of Education (the Department) and the states. These flaws undermine the intention of the law, render graduation rate accountability virtually nonexistent, and dilute the usefulness of AYP as a tool for identifying low-performing schools.†

The first result: graduation rate calculations that fail to account for large numbers of students who left school without a regular diploma. As with the definition of proficiency, high school accountability is weakened by inconsistent and unsatisfactory state-determined definitions of graduation rates. On the surface, NCLB’s definition and requirements related to graduation rates seem rigorous enough to produce meaningful and comparable rates that would be useful to parents, educators, the public, and policymakers. Unfortunately, states proposed and the Department approved a range of methods—there are at least five different types of graduation rate calculations in use by states across the country—some of which are quite misleading. More than five years after the law was enacted, states are still using a variety of flawed methods and, in some cases, different methods for different subgroups of students, depending on the availability of data in that state. State-reported graduation rates differ from those rates reported by respected independent sources by an average of 11 percentage points and as high as 30 percentage points.5 Not only does this obscure the graduation rate crisis, particularly for low-income and minority students, but it also makes it impossible to compare graduation rates across schools, districts, and states. These misleading graduation rates also undermine the AYP system, by discounting its ability to accurately identify low-performing high schools.

Second, NCLB does not set an ultimate graduation rate goal; therefore, states are not required to set—and schools are not required to meet—meaningful progress benchmarks (annual measurable objectives) toward that graduation rate goal. While a few states have elected to set meaningful ultimate graduate rate goals, most have not. Only New Mexico, Ohio, and Tennessee have set graduation rate goals of 100 percent by 2013–14.6 Interestingly, thirty-three states set the same graduation goal for the impending year and for 2013–14. As a result, in many states, schools do not have to increase their graduation rates to make AYP. Only a handful of states have set graduation rates benchmarks that increase over time, but most actually allow schools and districts not achieving those targets to still make AYP if they meet a far less meaningful minimum requirement. (In most states, that minimum requirement is just 0.1 percent, or less.7)

Third, only aggregate (not subgroup) graduation rates are used in the determination of AYP—so graduation gaps and the low graduation rates of poor and minority students, students with limited English proficiency, and students with disabilities are not factored into AYP determinations. While NCLB requires states to report disaggregated graduation rates, most states received waivers on this requirement because they did not have the capacity to collect the data. In a controversial decision, the Department decided that graduation rates did not have to be disaggregated by minority subgroups for accountability purposes, except for the “safe harbor” provision (an alternative formula for meeting AYP for low-performing schools). This means that high schools can make AYP despite a consistent, or even a growing, graduation gap. As the well respected Civil Rights Project has noted, “In essence, by approving these permissive plans while holding firm on test-driven accountability, the Department has effectively allowed the incentives to push out low-achieving minority students to continue unchecked.”


http://www.all4ed.org/files/NCLB_HighSchools.pdf
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Oct, 2010 11:23 am
@Setanta,
Set - the list of NCLB grade-appropriate objectives includes teachers becoming faciliators of critical thinking and peer teaching. Regurgitating information isn't considered learning. The across the board standardized tests are just to ensure the basics are in the grasp of students. How would you or anyone else rationalize disapproval of gains among minorities? Isn't this the gap we hope to close? I understand that due to generations of substandard educational options for certain racial segments, there remains a cultural bias in tests - but what would be a better way to make sure that all students of all races are ushered out in the world on a equal footing?
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Fri 8 Oct, 2010 11:28 am
@squinney,
That is horrible. I've seen that mindset close up among teachers and school officials. They have bought the heinous lie that some students can't learn or they are too lazy to try, so they ship in whites.

There are other school systems that look at the problem differently - and embrace the idea that low income, black and Hispanic kids have equal possibilities - and they formulate methods to teach them. This is working in the schools that approach these kids with an open mind. They CAN learn and be equally successful - if they have a qualified teacher who believes in them - and a similarly challenge-driven administration.

It's ALL about the attitudes of teachers and administration. Yours took the easy way out - and that is a horrible thing to say to those kids. "You can't do it - let's ship in some that can."
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Oct, 2010 11:29 am
@squinney,
I agree with your analysis, Squinney. However, I interpret that as an indictment of the public school system itself. Instead of working to address the problem at hand - how to improve the academic performance of the poor & disadvantaged (often black) children for whom they are responsible, they shuffle kids from class to class and school to school in an effort to improve their statistics. - and thereby harm everyone. This is a system perfectly designed to keep the disadvantaged on the plantation and forever dependant on the "leaders" who would "help" them by further lowering the standards applied to them and hiding them from their own failures. Keeping score, getting factual feedback, and dealing with success & failure are essential ingredients for success in anything in life and an educational system that doesn't do that will ultimately be of little benefit to its students.

There are some bright spots out there, however most ofthe serious attempts at addressing the real problems have come from charter schools which attempt to tackle the problem directly. Interestingly he State of Louisiana has started such a program in its public schools - one that focuses directly on raising the expectations for and academic performance of the children who have been failing - and not just on shuffling the kids and the numbers. The main ingredients are focused efforts with the kids, tests and feedback.

While Setanta's arguments about cultural content have some merit, In my view they are a distraction from the problem at hand, and too often have lead to even more sappy "reassurance courses" instead of real education in the concrete skills that might enable students to achieve more of their own goals in their lives.
Setanta
 
  4  
Reply Fri 8 Oct, 2010 11:30 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
I understand that due to generations of substandard educational options for certain racial segments, there remains a cultural bias in tests - but what would be a better way to make sure that all students of all races are ushered out in the world on a equal footing?


This statement assumes that enculturation in the dominant white, Protestant, western European culture is a useful compenent of education. I'd be interested to know what tools of critical thinking and learning you allege would accrue from acquiring that cultural acana.

The point, which you seem to want to sidestep, is that the result has a been a concentration of teachers' time and school district resources on meeting the standardized testing goals to the exclusion of the other goals of learning.
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Fri 8 Oct, 2010 12:02 pm
@boomerang,
http://www.nytimes.com/1994/09/28/us/dropout-rates-for-minority-students-keep-rising-in-cities.html

Let's keep it real. Drop-out rates for kids from poor families has been with us forever, as the above link reminds us.

One of the problems is the school isn't equipped to follow students throughout their lives and see who's mom lost her income, necessitating an income from her child...who got pregnant, who moved away and is in another school... Poor kids WILL drop out. However, NCLB, due to the added tenet, has forced administration to innovate new methods of retention. It's now a goal attached to money.

But, I'm so positive about the real accomplishments and the possibility that American educational has a real chance to succeed - that I should say your concerns are merited. They are being addressed. http://www.ncsl.org/default.aspx?tabid=12947 There's going to always be deception and lazy, greedy people in positions of power in education. There are legitimate horror stories about fudging numbers. Always have been. I still think this program has the bones to teach more of our kids better.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/11/national/11HOUS.html This is a horror story - but where there are people, there are these bottom feeders. Thankfully, more and more Kimballs can be found in the trenches.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Fri 8 Oct, 2010 12:03 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
I agree with your analysis, Squinney. However, I interpret that as an indictment of the public school system itself. Instead of working to address the problem at hand - how to improve the academic performance of the poor & disadvantaged (often black) children for whom they are responsible, they shuffle kids from class to class and school to school in an effort to improve their statistics. - and thereby harm everyone.

ABSOLUTELY!
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  4  
Reply Fri 8 Oct, 2010 12:07 pm
@boomerang,
Quote:

I don't think using your short term knowledge to pass a multiple choice test to be "demonstrating competence".


100% correct. Standardized tests are a joke, they tell you nothing about a student, other than the fact that they are good at memorization and doing what they are told.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Fri 8 Oct, 2010 12:11 pm
@Setanta,
This is completely dependent on what is happening in one particular classroom during the week/s before standardized testing.

A poor teacher - or a teacher under crazed pressure from wild-eyed administrators - may spend too much classtime previewing items imagined to be on a test. Truthfully, this can be a great review time for solidifying information you need. I don't see how going over plot, imagery, vocab building to assist in the future on the SAT - or practicing algebra or reviewing the scientific method is all that bad a thing to do in school...

But a good teacher can use the review time very convenient to fit student needs. Set up small groups based on strengths and weaknesses...let them study together, ask questions of each other, of her.

What's wrong with that?
Setanta
 
  4  
Reply Fri 8 Oct, 2010 01:02 pm
What's wrong is that the standardized testing is only looking for rote learning, keyed to the dominant culture, and it is not testing the ability to learn, the ability to reason and the ability to debate. What's so hard to understand about that. You continue to ignore that these tests most frequently test enculturation, and you haven't answered the question of what arcane cultural knowledge contibutes to the abilities to learn and reason.
aidan
 
  3  
Reply Fri 8 Oct, 2010 01:05 pm
@boomerang,
I hate NCLB. It reminds me of the thread I was reading today about the fire department that watched as someone's house burned down because he hadn't paid his $75.00

As a special needs teacher - I watched as children were denied services in an effort to cull certain populations of dead weight. Good teaching methods were often the least of what was being lost.
All I can say is, I hope it's changed or been refined.

This is one of the first threads I posted on this forum on April 17, 2005.
This is what I saw happening in IEP meeting after IEP meeting.
This was NCLB in action.
It made me sick to my stomach.
Quote:
I was reading the thread on disruptive children in the classroom, and have been participating in the NCLB thread under politics -and in an incredibly sad twist - just received word today that one of my seventeen year old students had been shot in the head and killed in Durham, NC on Thursday night.
I hadn't seen him in a year, because he had dropped out of school and I am in England at the moment. My reaction is beyond simple sadness. And despite the fact that all signs pointed to this as the likely outcome of his life - I'm so angry that I can't even cry.
My first big tussle with the administration at my school was over this boy. He was young for his grade, had never been retained, though he could barely read and write, and was up for re-eval.
I idealistically agreed that it should be done because I thought we were sincerely looking for fresh information that could help us make decisions about how best to help him.
His IQ and achievement tests came back without the fifteen point discrepancy that would qualify him as LD and eligible for services. Although his IQ was low enough (70) for a supportive program, his adaptive behavior scale was too high to allow him to qualify.
All services were withdrawn - he just didn't qualify I was told. I later recognized this as a pattern - when our special services administrator realized that we would be held accountable under NCLB for the performance of every single SS student, she decided that the effect of their failing score would be more easily diluted in the regular education population of 1500 than in the SS population of 150.
She began, rather ruthlessly, weeding out those who were least likely to pass, who were unfortunately, exactly those students who most needed the services.
This happened to Kashawn in ninth grade at the beginning of highschool when he was facing subjects like biology and algebra with fourth grade reading and math skill levels.
He hung in there for a year, I saw him at lunch and after school to try to help him on the side, but he eventually dropped out, got involved with a gang, and was shot point blank in the head and killed on Thursday night.
I know that people who read of him in the newspaper will think "Ahh, just another stupid, violent kid making the wrong choices, getting what he had coming to him. "
But I want people to know they would be wrong. I knew him to be a sweet, sad, confused boy who wanted to be able to read and write like everyone else and wished his life could be different. The last essay he wrote for me was about his brand new infant nephew. He wrote of being a good example for this child.
To me he was "Peanut" with an incredible smile, wit and charm and someone who didn't qualify for the help he needed from the adults who were responsible for providing him with an opportunity for an education. He's only one of the reasons why numbers, statistics, and results from standardized tests don't mean a thing to me.
People need to remember that these 'numbers' represent children. And a lot of them are no longer qualifying for what they need.


URL: http://able2know.org/reply/post-4376230
squinney
 
  2  
Reply Fri 8 Oct, 2010 01:43 pm
@aidan,
Wow. Yeah, Bear and I have done the Project Grad all night party over in that part of NC for years. Every year I find myself looking at the kids and wondering who is gonna make it and how far.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Fri 8 Oct, 2010 02:38 pm
@Setanta,
While I agree that some poorly designed standard tests may have those characteristics, it is not necessarily true of all such tests. Your argument could as well be used in favor of better tests - certainly in preference to no tests at all.

I find it hard to conceive of the effective management of any process without objective measurement and feedback. That's why we keep score in sports; measure output in manufacturing; throughput and success rates in professional services and consulting; and retention of knowledge in education.

No single measurement provides a complete picture of what has or has not been achieved. However, the existence of such imperfections is not at all a reason to ignore all measurement.
Setanta
 
  4  
Reply Fri 8 Oct, 2010 05:26 pm
@georgeob1,
What bemuses me is the rush of conservatives to support what is essentially a big government interference in local control program, and just about the biggest unfunded initiative ever to come out of Washington. Do you jokers change your political ideals like ties--a different one each day?

Sheesh . . . this is appalling.

Why do you assume that there was no effective management before the Feds stuck their noses in a system managed at the lowest of local levels for two centuries?

Why do you assume that there was no objective measurement and feedback before the Feds butted in?

Why do you assume that school districts, which have been managing their own affairs for two centuries, and turning out among the most productive workers on earth, and a highly educated body of competent professionals--can be assumed to have ignored all measurement until the Shrub decided to interfere?
boomerang
 
  3  
Reply Fri 8 Oct, 2010 06:14 pm
@Setanta,
Testing is BIG business. There was/is a lot of money to be made off NCLB.
0 Replies
 
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Oct, 2010 06:19 pm
@H2O MAN,
When workers are used and abused, unions are good, but when unions becomes too powerful, unions are bad, destructive and counter productive.
littlek
 
  3  
Reply Fri 8 Oct, 2010 06:44 pm
I am part of a teachers' union. I don't know much about the goings-on inside. What really makes me irate is that people outside of the complex system are criticizing it. Who would consider criticizing the plumbers' union or the fireman's union if they weren't in the know about them?
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Fri 8 Oct, 2010 06:48 pm
@HexHammer,
HexHammer wrote:

When workers are used and abused, unions are good, but when unions becomes too powerful, unions are bad, destructive and counter productive.


... the NEA has become too powerful, it is bad, it is destructive and counter productive.
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Fri 8 Oct, 2010 06:57 pm
@Setanta,
I haven't addressed the merits or lack of them in the NCLB legislation. Instead, I was clearly addressing only the idea of objective measurement of educational outcomes as a nesessary element of a successful program.

Federal interference in the operation of public schools started long before the NCLB legislation was passed, and there are numerous ongoing and intrusive Federal programs affecting public education quite apart from NCLB. Lots of social engineering has been the main result, but unfortunately not enough emphasis on education. Whatever its faults NCLB was at least an attempt to remedy that.

I agree that things would probably be much better if public schools were left entirtely to local government for their direction and operation. However, that hasn't been the case in this country for a very long time. We have an educational systems that has become increasingly dominated by well-intended but sometimes destructive Federal legislation; the action of Federal courts; and the persistent and pervasive influence of a standing education establishment dominated by the NEA, textbook publishers, and the AFT union. They have pursued social engineering goals at the expense of academic achievement, and, in the process have seriously ill served precisely the segments of the population they ostensibly were trtying to help.

In addition an organized opposition to tests and measurtement of real achievement has become a , perhaps unintended, byproduct of misguided attempts to create equal appearances and avoid facing real but uncomfortable issues.
Thomas
 
  3  
Reply Fri 8 Oct, 2010 07:44 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
They are also standing up against those who wish to bring some performance measurement and accountability to our schools.

More power to them for that. Where do I sign up?
0 Replies
 
 

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