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Verbal Used as Noun or Adjective?

 
 
Emdyey
 
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 10:21 pm
Tony's proposal TO PUT UP A BUSINESS was a failure. The phrase is a verbal, right?Now, I'm confused.How is it used in the sentence? Noun(appositive) that tells something about proposal? Or adjective that modifies proposal?Which one?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 786 • Replies: 13
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JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 10:40 pm
@Emdyey,
What's a verbal, Em?
0 Replies
 
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 10:44 pm
You don't PUT up a business. You build, run, own, have, fund a business. I'm not sure what PUT means here.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 10:51 pm
@Ceili,
About 4,620,000 results for an exact phrase "put up a business" Google, Ceili. Granted some, many?? are portions of a longer sentence, eg. "put up a business for sale" but there seems to be quite a few hits for this sense.

I can see it being used for a fake/front business.
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Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 11:05 pm
Then the sentence is not complete is it?
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 11:17 pm
@Ceili,
Yes, it is complete, Ceili. Obviously, the number of hits indicates that this collocation sees use in some dialects of English.
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Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 11:24 pm
With all due respect...
If someone were to say that phrase to you, would you know what they were talking about? Slip it into a conversation and see what reaction you get.
I took a look at the google hits. This seems to be a favoured phrase in the Philippines. Not necessarily a haven for proper english.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 11:33 pm
@Ceili,
English<>German dictionaries (only) know to put capital into a business and to put s.o. out of business
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 11:48 pm
Walter I have no qualms with using put in a sentence with business, your example is fine. I would use it in the same manner, but I have no idea what 'put up a business' means.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 11:50 pm
@Ceili,
Quote:
With all due respect...


No need for that, Ceili. I wouldn't expect anything else.

Quote:
If someone were to say that phrase to you, would you know what they were talking about? Slip it into a conversation and see what reaction you get.


There are things I hear daily from numerous dialects of English that throw me. Ones own dialectal narrowness isn't a reliable test of what's what in English.

That sentence didn't throw me until you mentioned it. I realized then that it is not part of my particular dialect.

Quote:
I took a look at the google hits. This seems to be a favoured phrase in the Philippines. Not necessarily a haven for proper english.


I've heard the same thing said about Canada, the USA, Australia, England, NZ. Now I'm not saying that it's truly established but again, the number of hits; I found it in an Ezine article,

Facebook has a,

Put Up a Business | Facebook

www.facebook.com/pages/Put-Up-a-Business/375302926122

And here's Article Alley; the title,

Putting Up A Business In Australia

The first thing that you need to get when you are planning to put up a business in Australia is of course a visa.

The author seems to be an English native speaker.

http://www.articlealley.com/article_1246712_29.html
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JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 11:53 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Methinks we might be dealing with a rather new collocation, Walter, quite possibly with an internet/computer age meaning.
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JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Sep, 2010 11:57 pm
@Ceili,
Quote:
but I have no idea what 'put up a business' means.


That's not exactly true, Ceili. I think that you do have a pretty good idea as you gave instances of synonym type meanings.

Of course, that's not to say that you couldn't have been off the mark, nor does it say that I'm correct in my feelings for its meaning. It's clearly not of our dialect but again, that doesn't mean it's not English.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2010 12:06 am
@Ceili,
Here's a hit for eastern Canada, Ceili, a London city councillor no less.

Quote:
“I look at a guy who wants to put up a business in London or Toronto or Cambridge or Kingston. He’s got a number of choices to make and he starts looking at all of these communities and he starts comparing. He’s looking at roads. He’s looking at ...

http://thevoiceoflondon.ca/walter-lonc-councillor-for-ward-seven
0 Replies
 
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Sep, 2010 12:17 am
In this last case there is a lot more context. In the first example, there is none. It could leave a lot of confusion. I don't doubt that is a commonly used phrase, but spoken english can be rather vague and still convey the meaning. Written english should be more precise, as it can leave room for confusion otherwise.
However, if this is a common phrase, I've yet to hear it hear here or anywhere I've ever been.
That being said, my kids are constantly coming up with new meanings to old words, so maybe I'm just out of the loop. ;-)
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