Wesley Clark vs. Howard Dean vs. George Bush

I'll start off...

I think Dean has the best chance of winning the primaries. He's an impassionate speaker, has a spotless record as governor, has many views that democrats love, and most importantly, I think democrats trust him more. Clark has commented that before that he would have run as a republican if they returned his calls. He's backed and voted for many conservative presidents including both Bushs. He publicly stated he would've voted in favor of the war on Iraq (which I don't mind since I supported the war and what it has achieved too though I don't agree with how or why Bush went about it). And there are many many reports from his former collegues that he is very stubborn. In short, democrats aren't sure if Clark is indeed a democrat.

I think Clark has the best shot of becoming president should he win the primaries. He's a general and has the experience to back up his views on war and security. Many people back republicans only because they want a strong military. He'll certainly appeal to the southren demographics and has the oratory skills to impassionate millions of new democrats to come to the boots. And he actually seems like he knows what he's talking about which a great deal more than most can say about Bush.

I haven't decided who I would prefer, Dean or Clark? Dean's views are more in line with my own. But Clark seems like he'll put everything behind getting what he wants done and isn't already sensitized with the bueracrary in government which often makes people more and more apathetic the more experience they have with politics.

Hmmm...
I don't think Clark will get the nomination. He isn't really a Democrat and most Democrats still want a real Democrat as their candidate. Dean qualifies in that regard. I feel that he will be the one chosen.

I will probably vote for him even though I am in the Green Party, only to keep GW and his gang of blundering, fascist, arrogant, warmongering thieves from further ruining the land wiping out the Middle Class, stacking the Supreme Court and turning America into a Police State.

Sometimes I feel that it would be better if these assholes were elected again & did **** up America, like I know they would then maybe there would be a revolution against the Plutocracy that is gutting this country but then I think what if the people just didn't do anything about it except whine. It's a delemma.

After hearing about John Kerry's comments on the Iraq war -- I have gone back to thinking he should be the candidate.

Frankly, I could not care less who the candidate is -- I would vote for Stalin over George Bush.

I hope that Pistoff's comment about being willing to abandon the Green Party gains wide acceptance among third party devotees.

The Democrats will need that vote in order to unseat Bush. (And I am a registered Independent -- so it is not easy for me to acknowledge all that!)

i agree with most of what centroles said. dean will win the primary but clark has the better chance of beating bush. i hope democrats would realize that and back clark. if clark gets the nomination and is smart, he'll pick dean as a runningmate. and vice versa if dean wins the primary. but i think a clark-dean ticket would be much more effective than dean-clark.

and to set the record straight. clark voted for clinton and later for gore. he said his comment about thinking about being a republican was a joke. and he said later said he would not have voted for the use of force.

which comment are you referring to Frank?

and more importantly, do you think Kerry still has a shot. even if he by some miracle wins the primaries, i don't think he'll be able to beat bush. he just doesn't strike me as being able to connect with voters. i'm sure he's a great guy with brilliant ideas and would make a good president. but i don't think he comes off saying anything that really riles up voters.

edit: nevermind, i found your previous reference to it. essentially when asked by rolling stones why he initially approved the iraq war, he said that he didn't think bush would screw up as badly as he did.

i agree, that's a brilliant response. one that appeals probably to both democrats and republicans alike. if he can keep up this candor, maybe he still has a shot.

ye110man, are you certain he voted for gore?

that changes everything. i recall hearing somewhere that clark backed bush jr. for the presidency. but maybe i misunderstood. do you by any chance have a source or anything? don't worry about it if you don't, i take your word for it.

Rolling Stone Magazine asked him why he had supported the president on the Iraq War back when the decision was being made, but now opposes the way things are going. His answer was (quoting from memory):

"Well, I didn't think he would **** things up as much as did."

If America is as bright as I think it is, no matter who the nominee of the party is, he/she will win next November. But keep in mind that I am a big fan of H. L. Mencken, and Mencken once said: "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."

So we'll see.

The Democratic Party situtation is not resolved in the least at this time.

Anything can happen.

And both parties have shown that they can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory is they put their minds to it.

if they keeps defeat out of demouths they stand a better chance of winning.

i can't wait till i see the debate between bush and clark. cheney and dean. just think, if democrats win now, odds are, we'll have clark as president for 8 years and dean as president for another 8. I honestly think both of them have an incredible ability to rally support, to the point that i see little chance of anyone beating either of them unless they make a major screw up.

i heard him say that during one of the more recent debates. maybe the cnn rock the vote debate? but yes he said he voted for gore.

I could be wrong.
It has happened, ever so rarely. I still strongly feel that Dean will be the nominee. I agree that Clark is a strong contender and probably it would be a wise move to ask him to be the VP. Hell, maybe he will be asked to be Sec. of Defense. It's all a real tough call this far from the election.

I do know this much. If the Dems and all the left don't get together, the chance of winning over the GW Bush Regime would be virtually nill. America just cannot be controlled by Right Wing Fascist for another 5 years. It's crunch time and we on the Left must compromise, although it pains us, to do so.

it looks like gore is backing dean now. i guess he's a shoe in at the primaries now. i'm glad that he is, i think he would make a great president.

i just hope he pulls off a victory over bush, something that i'm confident clark could've pulled off.

i love dean's plan though. they are specific, realistic and address all the stuff that democrats should do asap.

his plan on national healthcare for example is to essentially expand medicare and medicaid to cover all middle income and below adults under 25, all people at 150% of the poverty line, expand the benefits for the elderly, allow small business to buy the far cheaper govt. based plans like the ones given to govt. employees and insure all recently unemployed for three months till they get a new job? all this for half the money we get back from repealing bush's tax cuts for those making over 200,000!!!!!

All things considered -- it is amazing that the word in question in the Kerry quote has been replaced by asterisks.

Someone is a prude.

how ever amazed you are by this. this is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Why don't you learn to write like an 8th grader.

It'd be a big improvement.

The Supreme Court
In my view that is one of the top concerns. I believe the Dems should hammer that issue. Meaning: Can anyone imagine what the Supreme Court will be lie with 5 more years of dubya?

once again, your incredible ability to stick to the topic at hand and focus on what's relevent is awe-inspiring.

pistoff,

For some random reason, I, on a whim, picked up a copy of "The American Conservative" and read through it to get a sense of the conservative perspective. I was surprised by the fact that despite the obvious conservative tilt, the magazine made it a point to critique Bush on his mismanagement of Iraq, his inability to rally forth multilateral support, his expansionist economic policies, and his blatant disregard for basic civil liberties (ie. certain measures in the patriot acts, restricting peaceful protestors to free speech zones miles away from the media and arresting those who refused to comply etc.). The magazine itself was quite extraordinary, I recommend all of you to pick up a copy.

This leads me to believe that many conservatives are unhappy with bush as well. If the the next candidates focuses in on this unhappiness, if he makes it a point to target middle class suburbia with issues such as fiscal responsibility and civil liberties, I think it would be very difficult for Bush to pull through a victory.

If the war in Iraq wasn't going on to keep people wavering on if it was a good thing for our safety or a big mistake, he'd be lucky if there wasn't a march on Washington by most Repubs. over his domestic issue handling.

the way he deals with protestors though, I wouldn't be surprised if he has all those washington protestors hauled off away from the media to a free speech zone "for security reasons" perhaps to someplace in alaska.