On the wings of a snow-white dove

@Ceili,

I would love to respond to everything you've written,but it's just too hard in this format. I've tried twice and both times have been formatting abortions.

Instead I will segment the thread and dialogue.

Thanks for responding in detail though. let's see if we can keep it going.

Quote:

So, tell me, which group is morally superior?

Because neither are particularly morally upstanding doesn't mean they are equally bad. You wouldn't argue that a kid stealing candy from a store was "morally superior" to a man robbing a bank, but you also wouldn't argue they are morally equivalent.

Quote:

Do you honestly think that inciting hatred doesn't lead to violence?

Inciting hatred can lead to violence, but it is not a foregone conclusion that it will, and so it doesn't compare to actual acts of violence. The burning or threatened burning of Korans (it has already been done) has not, that anyone can even suggest let alone prove, led to violence. It doesn't compare to actual act of violence. I appreciate that you and your confreres would have it so, but it simply is not the case.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Having marched against the Vietnam War in 1969 and got suspended in my HS for taking on The Man in our school newspaper, I found myself beaten up in a gutter in Paris in 1971, because after hearing a bunch of French college kids in velvet jackets and coiffed curls try to convince me that all American soliders in Vietnam were "baby-killers," I told them their problem was that the US had pulled their asses out of two world wars.

I've now heard you tell this story enough times in as close to a context of an explanation of your liberal-to-conservative transition to wonder what your world view would be like if you hadn't gotten beaten up by a handful of French imbeciles.

So you ran into some abject idiots who were French, maybe their own pretext is that they'd run into some abject American idiots and it's all a wash... but I can't help but think it was likely not some clash of world views so much as a clash of youthful personalities.

1 Reply

@Robert Gentel,

Robert Gentel wrote:

but I can't help but think it was likely not some clash of world views so much as a clash of youthful personalities.

If it ever happened.

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@contrex,

Amen

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Quote:

dyslexia wrote: I was totally pissed about the label "texan".

That's just an abbreviation for ignorant asshole. Wink

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@JTT,

True. That is why I wear the label.

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@JTT,

no actually it's not, Texas is a state of the slavery south and not a state of the south-west. these are really different cultures very often confused by americans as well as others. my only objection to the label "texan" is limited to the above confusion.

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@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

True. That is why I wear the label.

Actually, I fully understand why people use Texan in that derogatory manner. But, there are a great many of us who accept being such without embarrassment. Not all of us are bedrock fundamentalists. Not all of us hate them furrin Yankees and joke that when you suck a California orange it sucks back. It's just easy to let "Texan" roll off the tongue, I know. Much easier than calling somebody an Arizonian or whatever they are. Or a _______ (You fill in the space. There are many choices.). When I was much younger, I hated being a Texan. Hated living here. But, guess what? Living in other parts of the country has taught me that the people here are by and large about the same as in those other places.

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@edgarblythe,

Agree - I'm proud to be a Texan, and I've never given two shits what anyone else had to say about it.

Cycloptichorn

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@edgarblythe,

Quote:

Living in other parts of the country has taught me that the people here are by and large about the same as in those other places.

Soooo true, Edgar.

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When the Americans landed in Normandy, they were returning the favor the French did for the Colonies during the Revolution. Without the French navy, there would be no USA.

1 Reply

@plainoldme,

plainoldme wrote:

When the Americans landed in Normandy...

They were accompanied by the British, Australians, New Zealanders, Canadians, Poles, Free French, Belgians, Czechoslovakians, Greeks, Dutch, and Norwegians.

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Quote:

after hearing a bunch of French college kids in velvet jackets and coiffed curls try to convince me that all American soliders in Vietnam were "baby-killers," I told them their problem was that the US had pulled their asses out of two world wars.

Punched out for being a stupid loudmouth ignorant dick, except that it is obviously a fantasy.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Quote:

because after hearing a bunch of French college kids in velvet jackets and coiffed curls try to convince me that all American soliders in Vietnam were "baby-killers,"

Certainly not all, Finn, but certainly enough to know that the phrase is accurate. And it wasn't just soldiers, implying the ignorant grunts who were the baby killers. It extended to the officer, indeed, right on up to the president of the United States.

Quote:

The Legacy of War

excerpted from the book

Rogue States

The Rule of Force in World Affairs

by Noam Chomsky The Legacy of War

...

The war then, of course, expanded. The US expanded the war to Laos and Cambodia. As in Vietnam, and Laos and Cambodia, too, the targets were primarily civilian. The main target, however, was always South Vietnam. That included saturation bombing of the densely populated Mekong Delta and air raids south of Saigon that were specifically targeting villages and towns. They were deciding, "let's put a B-52 raid on this town." Huge terror operations like "Speedy Express" and "Bold Mariner" and others were aimed specifically at destroying the civilian base of the resistance.

You might say that the My Lai massacre was a tiny footnote to one of these operations, insignificant in context. The Quakers had a clinic nearby, and they knew about it immediately because people were coming in wounded and telling stories. They didn't even bother reporting it because it was just standard, it was going on all the time.

Nothing special about My Lai. It gained a lot of prominence later, after a lot of suppression, and I think the reason is clear: it could be blamed on half-crazed, uneducated GIs in the field who didn't know who was going to shoot at them next, and it deflected attention away from the commanders who were directing the atrocities far from the scene-for example, the ones plotting the B-52 raids on villages. And it also deflected attention away from the apologists at home who were promoting and defending all of this. All of them must receive immunity from criticism, but it's okay to say a couple of half-crazed GIs did something awful.

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@Arella Mae,

You wrote: "I am not sure if all Christians know that Jesus is in the Qu'ran or not but I know he is. However, in the Qu'ran he is only a prophet and not the Son of God"

I'm sorry but this isn't a popularity contest where you grade founders of religions and compare their stats. I suggest a spiritual retreat so that you can get back to your roots. You are after all a person that needs to toilet regularly - but one wouldn't think it when one read such things!

A Prophet is the highest station one can have by the way. Bear in mind also Muslims aren't Christians hence they won't call Jesus "God". By the way, all of these great men needed the toilet regularly. Unlike God.

As for the rest of the thread: it's nice that people are showing tolerance and understanding. I believe we are all cast as different people because we are supposed to build bridges and know each other.

As Islam teaches in a hadith about God: "I was a hidden treasure, and I wished to be known, so I created a creation (mankind)"

As Carl Sagan taught: "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xaj407ofjNE

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On the wings of a snow-white dove

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