before closing little changed.

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The financial sector has been among the most volatile — stocks there fell by as much as 1.7 percent during the day, only to climb as much as 1.1 percent before closing little changed.

Is "before closing little changed" good grammar?

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Yes.

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'little changed' is an adverb describing HOW the market closed.
Another sample: before closing erratically.

Perhaps you would have preferred: before closing with little change.

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I think it's not an adverb.

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Sure it is . . .

before closing high.

before closing low.

before closing little changed.

(Adverbs can modifiy adjectives.)

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@PUNKEY,

It does seem to walk like an adverb, and quack like an adverb and it answers the adverbial type question relating to 'how'.

But I'm not going to commit until OmSig weighs in on this.

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I still ha'e ma doubts.

I grew up fast
I grew up tall

Are they both adverbs? I believe you will conclude they are not.

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@McTag,

Quote:

I still ha'e ma doubts.

I don't have great doubt, McTag, but I will admit to there being something that just doesn't sit quite right.

I grew up fast

This one seems to answer, How, in what manner, did you grow up? ]

??I grew up to be fast. ??

I grew up tall

This one doesn't, IMO, address the manner of growing up. It describes the final state, 'tallness'.

= I grew up to be tall.

1 Reply

@JTT,

Yes. And "high" and "low" in the given example are just the same. They are not adverbs, but adjectives. They describe a state or condition, not how it was arrived at; they do not modify the verb.

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@McTag,

Good point, McTag. Continue, if you would.

1 Reply

That phrase is ambiguous, so it's not good grammar.

1 Reply

@InfraBlue,

Quote:

That phrase is ambiguous, so it's not good grammar.

Your sentence is ambiguous, IB, but the grammar is in no way, bad.

Ambiguity has nothing to do with grammar. If it had, would we then have to use bad/ungrammatical grammar to state something we intended as ambiguous?

1 Reply

@JTT,

Quote:

If it had, would we then have to use bad/ungrammatical grammar to state something we intended as ambiguous?

I didn't say it was ungrammatical, and we would not necessarily have to use bad grammar to be deliberately ambiguous, but ambiguity was not intended in that sentence. Better grammar could have been used to avoid the ambiguity.

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@JTT,

Quote:

Good point, McTag. Continue, if you would.

I think the point I wanted to make is all there.

And by the same token, in the phrase "...the market closed little changed.", the "little changed" is a description of the state of the market, not of the manner if its closing.
So it's not adverbial, but adjectival.

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@McTag,

Quote:

I think the point I wanted to make is all there.

Quote:

And by the same token, in the phrase "...the market closed little changed.", the "little changed" is a description of the state of the market, not of the manner if its closing.
So it's not adverbial, but adjectival.

Well, now it is. Smile

the market finished up ten points. -> the up ten points market

the market ended low. -> the low market

the market closed high. -> the high market

the market closed little changed. -> the little changed market

It wasn't a high market, it wasn't a low market, it was a little changed market.

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@JTT,

So may I take that as a concession?

Thank you.

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1. the market is high

2. the market closed high

****************************************
#2 I STILL maintian that the verb "closed" is modified by the word "high", which tells how it closed.

#1. the linking verb "is" makes "high" an predicate adjective.

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I don't agree, but you knew that already.

"The market closed high" (which is jargon anyway, but let's skate over that) means "The market closed when it was high."

"High" has got nothing to do with "closed", in the grammatical sense.

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@McTag,

Quote:

So may I take that as a concession?

More like ruminations, McTag.

I kinda feel that it's more about finding out what's what than being right?

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@McTag,

Quote:

"The market closed high" (which is jargon anyway, but let's skate over that) means "The market closed when it was high."

"High" has got nothing to do with "closed", in the grammatical sense.

That's right, jargon is a non-issue as jargon is fully part of the English language.

Is, "The door closes high" jargon for carpenters?

Certainly, we can paraphrase any given sentence in English but focusing on the meaning doesn't really address what the part of speech is in the original sentence.

How did the market close? -> The market closed high.

It's starting to walk like an adverb and quack like an adverb again.

In what manner did the market close? -> The market closed high.

Quote:

Example sentence: The market closed high.

++++Time 0.00 seconds (308.34 total)
Found 1 linkage (1 with no P.P. violations)
Unique linkage. cost vector = (UNUSED=0 DIS=0 AND=0 LEN=5)

+---------------Xp---------------+
+------Wd-----+ |
| +--Ds--+---Ss--+--MVa-+ |
| | | | | |
LEFT-WALL the market.n closed high.e .

[The parser labels words with part-of-speech tags, such as ".n" (noun), ".v" (verb), ".a" (adjective) and ".e" (adverb). ]

Constituent tree:

(S (NP The market)
(VP closed
(ADVP high))
.)

Quote:

Example sentence: The market is high.

++++Time 0.00 seconds (308.34 total)
Found 2 linkages (2 with no P.P. violations)
Linkage 1, cost vector = (UNUSED=0 DIS=0 AND=0 LEN=5)

+--------------Xp--------------+
+------Wd-----+ |
| +--Ds--+--Ss--+--Pa-+ |
| | | | | |
LEFT-WALL the market.n is.v high.a .

Constituent tree:

(S (NP The market)
(VP is
(ADJP high))
.)

Linkage 2, cost vector = (UNUSED=0 DIS=2 AND=0 LEN=5)

+--------------Xp--------------+
+------Wd-----+ |
| +--Ds--+--Ss--+-MVa-+ |
| | | | | |
LEFT-WALL the market.n is.v high.e .

Constituent tree:

(S (NP The market)
(VP is
(ADVP high))
.)

http://www.link.cs.cmu.edu/cgi-bin/link/construct-page-4.cgi#submit

Well, that little exercise didn't confirm what I hoped it would confirm.

Allllthoooough, we can't assume that just because the parser mislabeled 'high' in the second example sentence it means that it mislabeled 'high' in the first example sentence.

Me, I'm still not sure. It's uncomfortable sitting on this here picket so, seeing as there are only two sides, I'm gonna climb down on the adverb side for the moment just to give my butt a bit of a reprieve but more ruminations are definitely in order.

1 Reply

before closing little changed.

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