12
   

Selfless Acts! Name One?

 
 
Reply Sun 8 Aug, 2010 12:12 pm
Hi!

And don't throw the 'brave soldier tossing himself on the grenade' rubbish at me. It is not selfless - He dies a hero (whatever that is?)

Anyone?

Mark...
  • Topic Stats
  • Top Replies
  • Link to this Topic
Type: Question • Score: 12 • Views: 2,702 • Replies: 37

 
tsarstepan
 
  5  
Reply Sun 8 Aug, 2010 12:38 pm
@mark noble,
Someone loses their swimming suit in the ocean and is presently buck naked. Stranger donates his or her t-shirt for that person to wear and keep. No money is exchanged just gratitude. That's good enough for me to consider it selfless.

Any attempt at calling this act as selfish is just quipping at semantics and is too obsessive about these soulless and pointless philosophical arguments like how many angels can dance on a head of a pin. And it seems they tend to lack the true understanding of not just human nature but nature of life itself.

And yes I do believe that the soldier that throws himself on that proverbial grenade is a potentially selfless act. Most of these incidents don't involve enough time for the soldier to think about anything other then the protection of her or his fellow soldiers/brothers at arms.

This soldier who suffers this great self-inflicted pain at the following of the detonation of this hypothetical grenade shouldn't suffer the further dismissive and trivial condescension that comes with this semantical philosophizing. And if there isn't life after death, then this soldier has ended her or his life without any obtainable reward. He or she can't collect on this so called hero status if there isn't any heavenly entry and promotion.
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 8 Aug, 2010 01:06 pm
@tsarstepan,
It's pretty silly to suggest that throwing oneself on a proverbial or hypothetical grenade is any kind of a selfless act.
0 Replies
 
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Aug, 2010 01:15 pm
@tsarstepan,
Hi Tsar!

Why does the soldier do this?

Mark...
tsarstepan
 
  5  
Reply Sun 8 Aug, 2010 01:23 pm
@mark noble,
To protect one's soldier/brothers of course. In this situation its leave the grenade alone and everyone could be suffer pain and injury and possibly death or the soldier sacrifices him or herself in order to let his fellow soldiers whom he or she loves to live on. Simple as that.
djjd62
 
  3  
Reply Sun 8 Aug, 2010 01:24 pm
@mark noble,
if i'm out and about i leave stacks of pennies in various places, store window sills, postal boxes etc.
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Aug, 2010 06:02 am
@tsarstepan,
Hi Tsar!

So He preserves what he loves.

Why?

Mark...
0 Replies
 
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Aug, 2010 06:05 am
@djjd62,
Hi Djj!

Does it make you feel good? Happy?
Do you get an increaded sense of wellbeing?

Must drive others to question themselves? @Who's leaving pennies all over the place?

Have agreat one!
Mark...

joefromchicago
 
  3  
Reply Mon 9 Aug, 2010 06:08 am
@mark noble,
Depends on how you define "selfless."
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  2  
Reply Mon 9 Aug, 2010 06:08 am
@mark noble,
when i lived in toronto, friends would ask me if i'd been at such and such a place because they'd see a stack of pennies, sometimes it was me, sometimes not, which meant i'm wasn't the only person doing it

i always hope that maybe someone who needed them more than i did found them,
Intrepid
 
  2  
Reply Mon 9 Aug, 2010 06:30 am
@tsarstepan,
Putting other people's needs before your own should, as you say, be enough of a definition of selfless to support your examples. It cannot be denied that throwing oneself on a grenade is a selfless act. Unless, of course, there is nobody around in harms way.
Shapeless
 
  2  
Reply Mon 9 Aug, 2010 07:28 am
@mark noble,
Quote:
And don't throw the 'brave soldier tossing himself on the grenade' rubbish at me.


It's not any more rubbish than the "people who do things for others derive pleasure from it and are therefore doing it for themselves" rubbish. That's one of the oldest verbal gymnastic tricks in the book.
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Aug, 2010 12:36 pm
@djjd62,
Hi DJ!

YOU lived in the 'lone ranger's' sidekick. WOW! Bit confined in there though, I guess?

You're very kind, might I add! But, do YOU gain any satisfaction from your actions?

All the best to you!
Mark...
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Aug, 2010 12:49 pm
@Shapeless,
Hi Shapeless!

One man's treasure is another man's trash.

It's just that the 'soldier' analogy is always thrown in to the affray in these instances, and:

The soldier is being paid to do what he does. He is aware of the honour that is bestowed upon those who do such things, he is brainwashed (indoctrinated) into having a raised sense of patriotic pride. He does have an inherent sense of duty to his comrades (family). Ultimately, though, he is protecting what he loves.
That, which we love, we posess, as it posesses us. Ergo, he is protecting what is important to him: Preserving himself.

So what he does - he does for himself.
This is not selfless.

No act can be performed unsubjectively. It has to be first processed by the consciousness of the actor - So all acts are a reflection of subjective progression. Subjectivety Rules!

Have a nice day!
Mark...
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Mon 9 Aug, 2010 12:55 pm
@mark noble,
Donating food to my local food pantry, which then distributes it to those in need of food.

Do I gain satisfaction from this act?

Minimal, at best. I am not solving the problem of hunger, I am not even putting a dent in it. I am just not totally ignoring it.
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Aug, 2010 01:01 pm
@firefly,
Hi Firefly!

I am not trying to prove that acts of kindness, such as yours, are of no value. I am glad there are so many decent people out there. I contribute in many ways myself.
But how can we possibly do so without gaining self-satisfaction? We can't. I am always satisfied by my own actions.

Even for the soldier - Well done to him! I say. But, he cannot do it selflessly, nor can you or I.

This thread was meant to assess and further discover the truth of human actions, but has once again resulted in a debacle of controversy.

Anyway, best of all to you, Firefly!
Mark...
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Aug, 2010 01:13 pm
@mark noble,
So, you would then contend that there are no truly selfless acts, is that correct?

I don't think I would really disagree with you on that.
0 Replies
 
Shapeless
 
  3  
Reply Mon 9 Aug, 2010 01:33 pm
@mark noble,
Quote:
The soldier is being paid to do what he does. He is aware of the honour that is bestowed upon those who do such things, he is brainwashed (indoctrinated) into having a raised sense of patriotic pride. He does have an inherent sense of duty to his comrades (family). Ultimately, though, he is protecting what he loves.
That, which we love, we posess, as it posesses us. Ergo, he is protecting what is important to him: Preserving himself.

So what he does - he does for himself.
This is not selfless.


As is always the case in the "fundamental selfishness argument," the awareness of consequences is conflated with the motivation(s). It's the only way the argument works. But it is rarely true. If I buy a $0.99 cup of coffee with a dollar, I am aware that I will receive a penny back. It does not follow that my motivation for the purchase was to receive a penny.
0 Replies
 
ABYA
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Aug, 2010 03:25 pm
I'm with you Mark.
I wouldn't be able to move, not even to just adjust my seating position if I couldn't see some benefit in it.
It's impossible to act entirely selflessly, if we could see no pleasure in an action, we wouldn't be able to do it.
I guess it all comes down to intention. if I perform some act with the intention to please others, even though it gives me a good feeling, this would be about as close to a selfless act as we can get.
We can't avoid acting selflessly, but if we could alter our outlook or intention so that we get our pleasure from wanting to do good to others, then thats as altruistic as we can be.
Can you imagine what life would be like if things were turned on thier head and instead of us getting our pleasure by receiving we got our pleasure by giving. People would be lined up to give and it wouldn't matter to them who they were giving to, because we can't avoid every act comes down to wanting to receive pleasure.
All that needs to be changed is our intention.
0 Replies
 
Izzie
 
  2  
Reply Mon 9 Aug, 2010 04:12 pm
@mark noble,
I believe that people who donate organs or bone marrow anonymously who go through various amounts of medical testing procedures in order to potentially give someone a chance to live are acting selflessly. Donors and recipients are totally anonymous to one another and there is not a choice of who the organ or marrow would go to, or even IF it is ever used. The results etc would not be known by the donor. That would seem selfless to me.

I also know that frozen embryos from previous IVF treatments MAY or MAY not be used for medical benefit - however, this is an unknown when embryo is donated - I would consider this a selfless act.



No doubt Mr Noble will not consider these things selfless!!!!!!!!
 

Related Topics

Whadya say we all put coldjoint on ignore? - Discussion by bobsal u1553115
One Thing I've Noticed - Discussion by djjd62
An apology - Discussion by Smileyrius
The Thumbs Up Club - Discussion by edgarblythe
How Many Members Would Prefer Homogeneity? - Question by Finn dAbuzz
An Open Letter to A2K Members - Discussion by edgarblythe
SHOULD I UNBLOCK SETANTA? - Question by mark noble
 
  1. Forums
  2. » Selfless Acts! Name One?
Copyright © 2019 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 03/22/2019 at 06:43:12