RexRed
 
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2010 11:50 am
As many know I have in the last year changed my political affiliations from conservative to liberal. It was easy when I hated Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid I guess I had just gotten used to it (just kidding).

Now I have a whole new set of hatreds, a total reversal. I have left all religions and become a staunch agnostic. I find myself hating the republicans even worse than I hated the liberals before. I just hope this gets easier over time.

I know forgiveness is the key but I am still coming to grips with the issues. I am more than an agnostic, I find I detest organized religion most of all. How do I cope with this new set of views? When the Catholic church and the Republicans took away my right to marry my same sex partner in the state of Maine it planted a hatred that I honestly cannot seem to fathom. I feel like letting loose and spewing out the worst verbal slurs I can think of, this cannot be the way of coping with this personal loss.

Can anyone shed some light on how they handle their dislike for the conservatives and fundamentalists? I want to be right with myself and others.

Why do I always have to have something to hate?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 4 • Views: 1,514 • Replies: 17
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edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2010 11:58 am
Careening from extreme to extreme. One day you will age enough to mellow out, is my guess.
djjd62
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2010 12:09 pm
@edgarblythe,
true dat, edgar

politically, i've gotten to the point where i don't hate any party in particular, i hate them all, or rather i mistrust them enough it seems like hate

as for religion, i just don't care, but then i never really cared even when i was kid in church, it was just something you did on sunday mornings
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2010 12:12 pm
I grudgingly vote Democratic, for they are sliding along with the Republicans in too many ways. No alternatice parties have a snowball's chance. What ya gonna do?
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2010 12:16 pm
If only my heart was blind.
djjd62
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2010 12:17 pm
@edgarblythe,
that's where we at least have some advantage, having extra parties to work with, and with the government we have now being a minority they have to make concessions to get things done
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2010 12:19 pm
@RexRed,
i would never waste my heart on hatred
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2010 12:21 pm
@djjd62,
I do hear you but I guess I am a fool. I care about the issues with a passion that consumes my ability sometimes to pull in the reins.
djjd62
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2010 12:54 pm
@RexRed,
i don't get why anybody cares about the marriage thing, if somebody wants to get married they should be able to (of course i don't understand why anyone would want to get married anyway)
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2010 01:08 pm
@djjd62,
There are reasons. My ex boyfriend has 2 kids and a nasty custody battle with his ex wife who beat on the oldest one and nearly starved the youngest one. If he were to stay with me the way the current laws are, same sex couples are not recognized as a functional family here in Maine. Were the laws changed the schools would be forced to recognize me as a parent also. His ex wife who only wants to live off the money provided by the state and his child support, she was not a good mother at all. She could use his relationship with me to take the children from him. So he has not called me once in over 6 months till he has full custody and even then we don't have a chance. When I met him his ex wife had the kids (we had dated for a year) but the police took them from her over certain incidents. He is scared to even be seen with me and I don't blame him considering she could use that to hurt him in court.

It is a total mess thanks DIRECTLY to the republicans and the catholic church...

Do you think I can and should forgive them for coming in right when I needed the laws and taking marriage equality away? I feel like I have lost a part of my soul. Every day is like torture to me.

Is it wrong to hate someone or something that takes away the person you love the most in this world? I don't think i will ever get over this.
0 Replies
 
Khethil
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2010 01:25 pm
@RexRed,
RexRed wrote:
How do I cope with this new set of views? When the Catholic church and the Republicans took away my right to marry my same sex partner in the state of Maine it planted a hatred that I honestly cannot seem to fathom. I feel like letting loose and spewing out the worst verbal slurs I can think of, this cannot be the way of coping with this personal loss.

Can anyone shed some light on how they handle their dislike for the conservatives and fundamentalists? I want to be right with myself and others.

Why do I always have to have something to hate?


Wow you're signing my song. This is perhaps the best, most pertinent and important question I've seen posed here yet...

Hatred, poisonous labeling and blame-laying are just running wild. Every time I expose myself to any kind of media, news story or discussion board , I catch it over and over. Finger pointing and cheap insinuations seem to discard any kind of maturity or compassion. I'm just tired of it.

What's sad is that most people don't disagree on general goals - only how to go about achieving them. Even then, there's also a mess of "violent agreement" where two sides seem to be duking it out verbally, yet if you listen to what's *actually* being said, they don't TRULY disagree at all.

Here's my advice to: Don't ally yourself to either "banner" of conservatism or liberalism at all nor to ANY political party. I think most people who are intelligent and mature have a mix of views that place them somewhere in the middle anyway. I refuse to jump on any bandwagon and the only way to do that is to hold myself aloof from the sickness of bickering. I'll discuss issues, but I'll never side with any one party or orientation. Religious vitriol carries the same "my way or the high-way"-attitudes in contemporary polemics; whether you outwardly take a "side" depends on your feelings (of course), but in religious vitriol I've found the best way to deal with it is to carry my own beliefs, yet be honestly and openly tolerant of others by respecting their views simply BECAUSE they're important to whomever's talking. If you don't personally choose a "side", you have less of a chance of being hurt or offended by extremist talk.

Truth be told, as I've looked into my personal views I've discovered I'm as much one way as the other. Its only the "flag waving" and "Us -vs- Them" attitude that polarizes us. Politicians do this too; as if their party or side has all the answers. How stupid is that?

As you hear extremists that sound like whining children or arguing spinsters, forget about what party or orientation they're preachingsee them for the hateful dolts they are. Only the shallowest of fools believes one party or one orientation has a monopoly on wisdom.

So yea, disconnect yourself from these idiots and be yourself.

Good luck
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2010 02:06 pm
@Khethil,
Khethil wrote:


So yea, disconnect yourself from these idiots and be yourself.



Self reliance can get lonely after a while...
Khethil
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2010 02:17 pm
@RexRed,
RexRed wrote:
Self reliance can get lonely after a while...

I can only imagine... on behalf of a ass-backwards culture, I offer my apologies.

So this has (at least in part) to do with Gay marriage. Yea that's a tough one. Since I'm heterosexual and haven't felt that particular sting of discriminative hate, I won't presume to know your situation. I might can offer some thoughts which may or may not help though...

I see you're in the U.S...

The culture in the U.S. is divided over recognizing same-sex partners as "married". As such, estate procedures, custody, life-emergency decisions, tax-issue and more don't apply to same sex couples as they to heterosexual pairs . This is the very epitome of discrimination based on sexual orientation. The thing is, since you can't change the situation or laws yourself, your options are few. The sad fact is, the U.S. is still saturated with horrible stereotypes about same-sex couples; we're so horribly sexually-fixated that the only aspect many have in their minds (in a homosexual relationship) is the sex itself. What results are people who fail to see that these are people; just as good, bad, wonderful or indifferent as anyone else. But bigotry runs high here and labeling people has surpassed baseball as a national past time.

You might be able to justly point to one group or another and say, "This is your fault!!", but that doesn't help. Further, you'll find in each of those groups there are individuals who sympathize with your dilemma. Labeling ALL people of some affiliation with the same attribute (or 'sin') is almost as wrong as the injustice many unjustly label homosexuals with; so don't do that.

I think you are fully justified in being angry at that disparity - fully justified at hating that mindset. But fight against the bigotry, not the people - rail against the stereotype, not the "group". Battles like this, I think, are won very slowly as the labels lose their kick. The only way this happens is when someone bathed in that stereotype comes to know and appreciate an individual (who is an "other"). Over time, the idiotic preconceptions of that label melts away.

For our lifetimes, it probably won't. This culture's far to pissed off and stupid. But try and not let that anger become a cancer; avoid it, get around it if you can. The quality of your life depends on being at peace with who and what you are. So if you can't change it, your energies are probably better spent in finding a way to not let that hate ruin the goodness that can still be had.

Wow... good luck. I wish you the best!
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2010 05:21 pm
@Khethil,
Khethil wrote:

RexRed wrote:
Self reliance can get lonely after a while...

You might be able to justly point to one group or another and say, "This is your fault!!", but that doesn't help. Further, you'll find in each of those groups there are individuals who sympathize with your dilemma. Labeling ALL people of some affiliation with the same attribute (or 'sin') is almost as wrong as the injustice many unjustly label homosexuals with; so don't do that.


I had to take a nap and think about this. It may be something I didn't what to hear but needed to hear...

I will say in principle you are correct.

Consider it was the republicans sending me spam in my email saying we only have x amount of days to stop the homosexuals from wrecking marriage so heterosexuals won't want to get married anymore... I did not get one single email from the liberals... In fact the liberals mobilized statewide to stop the republicans and the bishops. Does that mean a few democrats did not vote against marriage equality? I am sure many did. The liberals who voted against marriage equality were terrified by the republican rhetoric (lies) that was broadcast incessantly on their local radio and television channels... The republicans said in their ads that gays would be teaching kindergarten kids sex education! There was nothing like this ins the bill.

It was the bishops not the parishioners of the church who took the money meant to feed the poor and gave it to the broadcast networks to play with politics. Our prebble street resource center here in Portland Maine WAS funded by the catholic church and when the catholic church learned the resource center was pro marriage equality they ripped the funding and the community "liberals" came through and took up the slack. So much for the outreach and compassion of the faith based catholic charities... So who should people be donating to the church or the community if they want to feed the poor?

I think our two Maine republican senators voted in favor of the marriage equality act but the republican trumped them with moneys from the christian coalition. Again people donating to churches thinking their money is going to feed the poor and it is given to broadcasting companies for air time to make big business even bigger... Sound like the republicans?

I call a spade a spade...

These rabid catholic bishops are coming to a theater near you.

A friend of mine sent me this paper from Madison WI. He knew it would spark a fie storm with me.

http://www.thedailypage.com/isthmus/article.php?article=29991
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2010 05:37 pm
@RexRed,
Rex, We humans have different perspectives on many things - both important and not important. I even have differences of opinion on politics with my siblings, but that doesn't mean I don't respect them.

We have many "arguments," that will never be resolved during our lifetimes.

They are christians, and I am an atheist.

My brother (a republican) ran for state office this year, but I have encouraged people I meet to vote for him - even though I'm an independent.

As an independent, I'm not restricted to vote for a party favorite, but to weigh the candidate or proposition on their own merits. For example, I would have voted for John McCain if he had not changed so much from the John McCain I used to respect back in 2000. He became wishy-washy, and nobody really knew where he stood on important issues during the 2008 campaign season.

Many conservatives voted for McCain because 1) he was the party favorite, 2) he chose Sarah Palin as his running mate, and 3) they didn't distinguish between the old McCain and the new McCain.

The real skill is in trying to put different values on what you think are important and not important. Try to rid yourself of the nonsensical trivia that seems to permeates our thinking day; they waste our personal quality time, and gets us nowhere.

Think positive, and don't worry about things you personally cannot control; that's about 99% of our life.
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2010 06:52 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I guess when people eeked me out of my conservative rut then didn't consider I was going to go flying so far out into left field. Smile I am an independent too but I find myself aligning perfectly with the values of the far left.

I am pro choice
An anti war pacifist (even thought for a spell the repugs got me to act otherwise)
Support universal health care
I support Obama 100%
I support Reid and Pleosi 100%
I actually think fondly of Ted Kennedy now, RIP.
I support wall street reform
Amnesty for illegals
I profess agnosticism
I support marriage equality
If you remember I supported the bail out for GM
I support measure of reducing CO2 gases and a greener earth.
I support capitalism but only with reform
I support higher taxes for the rich and lower taxes for the poor
I support raising minimum wages and paying Mexican laborers equal wages and including them in our health care system

Though I am an independent I am not fooling anyone that I am a liberal now.
My bible thumping days have drawn to a welcomed close...
I still quote it only to show its hypocrisy and ambiguity.

Yes I support our two female republican senators here in Maine even though they are probably not as liberal as I am. But that is about as far as I go.

Collins is big on wind energy here in Maine which I fully support.

I have some reservations on the issues I have mentioned but when it comes to the catholic church it is like a country that has been radicalized by fanatical clerics, the church needs to change their stance on gays or a regime change is certainly in order. This is not a case of the head not knowing what the tail is doing...
Pronounce
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2010 11:30 pm
@RexRed,
The other posts say it all. And I too think this is a cultural issue. It seems to me you're scapegoating the Republicans, Catholic Bishops, and Fundamentalists where they are just being the mouth piece of the majority of the culture.

I understand your anger at not being with the one you love. Just be patient in time it will all work out, and you'll have your reward. Consider others who've lost their loved ones to war won’t ever be so lucky.

Your comment that you were a "Bible Thumper" (an euphemism for a hard core evangelist) and are now an agnostic has me very curious as to why. An evangelist of the Biblical Jesus believes the following:
• The fullness of the Father inhabited Jesus (Yashua in Hebrew - which means “Yahweh saves”)
• Contemporaneous people testified that Jesus was the Anointed one of God (or Christ) as prophesied in scripture from old
• That this Jesus was holy and righteous in all ways and yet voluntarily died to satisfy the dept owed to the Creator for all sin of all men
• God honored Jesus’ obedience of living righteously even though it cost him his life by resurrecting him and this was witnessed by more than 500 individuals who give testimony that he had been dead and then afterwards was alive
• From that time to now, and even the generations before Jesus day, a person only needs to admit that they are sinful and can not be made righteous before a holy Creator in any way save to believe they are righteous because of Jesus sacrifice for them
So I wonder how a person believes this whole-heartedly for some time, and then after a time doesn’t.

Also I have to wonder what Ted Haggard would have to say on the subject of gay marriage now.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 12:41 am
@RexRed,
I am pro choice
An anti war pacifist (even thought for a spell the repugs got me to act otherwise)
Quote:
Support universal health care
- I'm also a supporter, but Obama did a bad job in implementing his.
Quote:
I support Obama 100%
- I believed at one time I was also a 100% Obama supporter, but not longer. He's made too many mistakes - including his implementation of universal health care, expanding the war in AFghanistan, and the bailout of banks, financial institutions, and big companies, without much regulation to control spending or return of the money.
Quote:
I support Reid and Pleosi 100%
- Reid, maybe 50%, Pelosi zero %.
Quote:
I actually think fondly of Ted Kennedy now, RIP
. He never paid for his crime of leaving a drowned woman in his car; there is absolutely no excuse for his behavior.
Quote:
I support wall street reform
- It depends on what kind of reform.
Quote:
Amnesty for illegals
- Only if they a) pay all their taxes, b) wait the legal limit to become citizens, and c) pay a fine
Quote:
I profess agnosticism
- That's between you and your own conscience.
Quote:
I support marriage equality
- If you mean marriage for gays and lesbians, I agree.
Quote:

If you remember I supported the bail out for GM
- I don't believe in bailout of failed companies, because that treats many unemployed people unequally.
Quote:
I support measure of reducing CO2 gases and a greener earth.

I believe there are ways to do this without killing the economy.
Quote:
I support capitalism but only with reform
- Any economic practice requires rules and regulations to protect both business and the consumers.
Quote:
I support higher taxes for the rich and lower taxes for the poor
- I agree with this philosophy especially now when our government spends money on expensive national defense and wars, and runs huge deficits.
Quote:
I support raising minimum wages and paying Mexican laborers equal wages and including them in our health care system
- All illegals should be required to follow the laws of this country. The best way to enforce laws is to have different quotas for farming and other industries where labor is hard or difficult to find. We do this for highly trained specialists in industry, education, and our health care system where we make use of their skills. There's no reason why we shouldn't have quotas for farmers and other industries - usually restaurants - where workers are difficult to find. They should have the same laws governing their status in this country.
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