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Love of Self Before Others?

 
 
Izzie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jul, 2010 03:44 pm
@Khethil,
Khethil wrote:


I just see loving oneself, and loving someone else as two independent activities.


totally agree
0 Replies
 
stevecook172001
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jul, 2010 04:46 pm
@Khethil,
Khethil wrote:

"You must love yourself before you can truly love another" - What a cliche! I myself have used it on occasion. But is it true? If so, what might the mechanics be?

I've done some looking and have found no reason why this ought to be true. Yes, I think that self respect and self "love" is important - to a point. But is such prerequisite to the ability to love another? My intuition tells me "yes" while my intellect simultaneously says, "No, this isn't true at all"

What say ye? Is self love required before you can "truly" love another? And if so - and more importantly - why?

You will have a statistical tendency to love the phenotypic expression of your own genes (or the phentotypic expression of copies of them in other humans) before you love anyone else's phenotypic expression of their genes.

The above has been buried under a mountain of poetic language down the ages. But it always comes down to that.

In the end.
Khethil
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2010 01:12 pm
@stevecook172001,
stevecook172001 wrote:
You will have a statistical tendency to love the phenotypic expression of your own genes (or the phentotypic expression of copies of them in other humans) before you love anyone else's phenotypic expression of their genes.

I could see that - that this tendency exists. It's a bit of a reflective action, in this context though, as if to say, "I love the *me* I see in others". Yea, you're probably right, though that doesn't much speak to the question - whether or not one "cannot" love others unless they first love themselves.

I'm just gonna stick this one on my long list of "poetic but false" idioms I come across.

Thanks again for all your good replies
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Mon 5 Jul, 2010 01:18 pm
@Khethil,
Khethil wrote:

"You must love yourself before you can truly love another" - What a cliche! I myself have used it on occasion. But is it true? If so, what might the mechanics be?

I've done some looking and have found no reason why this ought to be true. Yes, I think that self respect and self "love" is important - to a point. But is such prerequisite to the ability to love another? My intuition tells me "yes" while my intellect simultaneously says, "No, this isn't true at all"

What say ye? Is self love required before you can "truly" love another? And if so - and more importantly - why?
I dispute that u MUST do so,
but I believe that it is usually wise to proceed that way.





David
0 Replies
 
Khethil
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jul, 2010 06:25 am
Thanks again for the replies.

My wife had an interesting spin on this one. Lemme see if I can paraphrase it. She said something like,

Quote:
I take it not so much that someone without self-love can't truly love someone else, but more that persons who don't "love" themselves don't really see themselves as "worthy" of love, and therefore love from someone else can't be real - that as long as this persists, they won't likely to ever grow a healthy relationship. What do I think of someone who says they "love" me when I know, in my heart, that I'm not really worth it? What kind of distrust or resentment might that spawn?

It certainly didn't prove or disprove the initial postulate, but I thought it nice to pass on.

Thanks
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jul, 2010 06:31 am
@Khethil,
Khethil wrote:

Thanks again for the replies.

My wife had an interesting spin on this one. Lemme see if I can paraphrase it. She said something like,

Quote:
I take it not so much that someone without self-love can't truly love someone else, but more that persons who don't "love" themselves don't really see themselves as "worthy" of love, and therefore love from someone else can't be real - that as long as this persists, they won't likely to ever grow a healthy relationship. What do I think of someone who says they "love" me when I know, in my heart, that I'm not really worth it? What kind of distrust or resentment might that spawn?

It certainly didn't prove or disprove the initial postulate, but I thought it nice to pass on.

Thanks
Just beware of gold diggers
who see u as an obstacle between themselves n your property.





David
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  2  
Reply Wed 7 Jul, 2010 06:37 am
@Khethil,
Quote:
I take it not so much that someone without self-love can't truly love someone else, but more that persons who don't "love" themselves don't really see themselves as "worthy" of love, and therefore love from someone else can't be real - that as long as this persists, they won't likely to ever grow a healthy relationship. What do I think of someone who says they "love" me when I know, in my heart, that I'm not really worth it? What kind of distrust or resentment might that spawn?


Smart lady. A person who does not love him or herself tends to look for love in people who will somehow satisfy his own neediness. This neediness is seldom satisfied, creating dysfunctional relationships.

The person who is secure within himself is much more capable of a mature love. In other words, a mature person wants a certain partner because they share the same basic concepts of life. He does not NEED the person,but he wants her because of who she is.
0 Replies
 
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jul, 2010 03:00 pm
But who doesn't need love in their lives? I believe we all share the need of having people in our lives who love us. It's what makes us able to love ourselves.
I think people love the people they love as much for how those people make them feel (because they know those people love them) as they do for the characteristics those people embody.

I find the concept of judging the quality of someone's love a little off-putting. For instance, someone who was abused as a child who is not the most self-loving person, can certainly still love another person. Is their brand of love any less valuable than someone who has no doubts about their self-worth?
And how would the quality or value of these separate brands of love be measured?


ABYA
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jul, 2010 05:34 pm
@stevecook172001,
stevecook172001 wrote:


You will have a statistical tendency to love the phenotypic expression of your own genes (or the phentotypic expression of copies of them in other humans) before you love anyone else's phenotypic expression of their genes.

The above has been buried under a mountain of poetic language down the ages. But it always comes down to that.

In the end.


I like this answer, as I was reading through the thread, I had decided to make a post along these lines, but Steve beat me to it.
I wouldn't have been able to say it in such an intelligent way though.
But there is another saying, "opposites attract" which throws a bit of a dampener on it.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jul, 2010 10:22 pm
@aidan,
aidan wrote:

But who doesn't need love in their lives? I believe we all share the need of having people in our lives who love us. It's what makes us able to love ourselves.
I think people love the people they love as much for how those people make them feel (because they know those people love them) as they do for the characteristics those people embody.

I find the concept of judging the quality of someone's love a little off-putting. For instance, someone who was abused as a child who is not the most self-loving person, can certainly still love another person. Is their brand of love any less valuable than someone who has no doubts about their self-worth?




And how would the quality or value of these separate brands of love be measured?
With an amorometer ?
0 Replies
 
NoOne phil
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Oct, 2010 01:38 pm
@Khethil,
Is relation to self admissible?
If not, then can one ever change the self?
How do we change?
Can one say that we learn by experience?
If so, then can we also transform this into, perception determines conception, conception determines will?
Can one either love or hate the self?
One more time, is relation to self admissible, or does A = A.
0 Replies
 
John Trenor
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Nov, 2010 02:34 pm
@Khethil,
I must agree, there is a thin line between loving your self and being a selfish Egoist. Accepting yourself as a person that wants to be loved I believe is healthy, but isn't it rather difficult to love your self more than others? Perhaps it’s the maternal love that sparks the whole process, (what comes first the chicken or the egg?)
0 Replies
 
55hikky
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Nov, 2010 10:43 pm
@Khethil,
that's a quote I have found out, not through the quote, but myself. I have seen that when I am not happy with myself, I can never be happy for someone else. (I understand I am exchanging the word love for happy, but excuse my switch, you can use them interchangeably if it helps) I am always skeptic, negative and pessimistic; never wholehearted and genuine in any of my compliments, though logically, what they are doing is praiseworthy in my opinion. There is always something lingering in the back of my mind that prevents me from being in the moment. Shame is what it is in my case. I am ashamed of who I am, and what I do not do. Partly because I have high standards for myself, and partly because I cannot do the simplest task I set out to do. But I do not do what I think I can, and should do, and thus this is the source of me not being fully happy with myself.

I can kind of relate to hawkeye's notion, but not as in-depth nor well understood as him. I have just recently isolated this notion after years and years of this feeling going on, I never had the cognitive capacity to understand my situation (mainly through denial and lack of self-reflection). Maturity, unbearable feelings of disgust and depression, and actually being proud of myself for once allowed me to identify this feeling and origin of shame.

So I don't think this is pragmatic nor empirical for you, it is just my opinion and experience, but if I don't love myself, it is impossible for me to fully love someone else. I'll perhaps come up with a more rigid, well constructed argument when I am more aware and familiar with this feeling and notion.
Until then, I think hawkeye said it best. and I also agree with his notion on marriage, very insightful and educational to me, and perhaps also for those that are in the middle of a long relationship.
0 Replies
 
 

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