What's a mother to do?

Loyalty by blood or birth?
It doesn't seem to me that it's really a question of loyalty to son or grandchild. What a wonderful world it would be for all children if they were so loved? There is absolutely nothing wrong with Joan wanting, and persuing a relationship with her grandchild. That is her paternal grandchild and she should feel no guilt in loving him/her. But on a more serious note...her son needs to get a life! Someone should tell him that shirking the resposibilities of his child is not fair to that baby, no matter how he may feel about Kathy. And he should furthermore be informed that not having a job will not prevent him from paying child support should Kathy seek it. If he has no income, they will calculate his "POTENTIAL INCOME" at a rate of $5.15/hour (minimun wage) for 40 hours/week. I hope this helps a little!!

Joan should pursue seeing her grandchild no matter what her son thinks. After all a test proved it was her grandchild, her own flesh and blood.
Sounds like her son needs to do some growing up.

I believe that baby should be given as great of a life as possible, rich in people who love it. If Bill can't come to grips with the fact that he has a son, Grandma has no reason to give anything up that gives her so much happiness as that baby. And if Bill could quit his ranting and raving, he just might find a little happiness for himself in that child.

Throw the freeloader out of the house. This will teach him some responsibility.

What a muddle! Bill is, tho, a grown man and should be responsible for himself. If Kathy isn't asking for child support, she should be -- if only to stash the money in a savings account for the baby's future education! Even a little is better than nothing.

Bill's mother isn't the one who has "screwed him up financially" -- he did that himself when he fathered a child he had no intention of being responsible for.

Babies need all the love they can get. More power to the people who are willing to give it to them!

I think Bill should get a grip. After all, Kathy obviously wants the baby to have a connection with the new boyfriend, biology or what, hence the birth certificate, and the name. A situation has arisen to throw a little confusion into the works, but Bill is being a real child here, and should grow up. Maybe then, everyone could get along.

Also, regarding child support, if Kathy has not asked for it, it is most likely because her current boyfriend can provide sufficiently, and she is trying to do the right thing for her child. Let's not forget the current boyfriend. If Bill is this sort of person, do you blame Kathy for breaking it off with him, and only maintaining a relationship with the grandmother?

Bill's an arsehole.

This is not a matter of one or the other. Bill is a no-good, and would attempt to deprive a grandma of the pleasure of her grandchild. IMO, Bill does not seem to want to face up to ANY of his responsibilities. Hearing his mom go on and on about his child, simply throws in his face what a sorry excuse for a man that he is.

Good for Joan- She should play grandma to the hilt. Kids need all the loving attention that they can get!

I have a friend whose daughter is a druggie. When the daughter had a child, the grandparents cared for her, for a time. Then she was given up for adoption. The grandparents have a significant part in the child's life, even though she lives far away now. They talk, and visit a few times a year. It is wonderful that the new parents did not squelch the relationship. The child is much better off for it!

I think Joan needs to consider how Bill came to turn out the way he did. Was/is he horribly spoiled? He's still in the house, so it seems Joan might have a penchant for over-indulging.

It's fine that Kathy is allowing her to be a grandparent, but if I were Kathy, I'd be looking at the family dynamics, and limit Joan's involvement.

Bill can only benefit by growing up and getting out of the house.

Thanks everyone for your responses. Life can be a trip, huh?
Kathy is no prize. I'll say that from the getgo. Bill stopped seeing her because she slept around. The boyfriend thought the baby was his until the blood tests were done. Needless to say, that guy is long gone. There's another boyfriend on the scene now.
Bill is an only child and yes, his mother has spoiled him in the worst ways, no doubt about that.
The only innocent party here is the baby.

I agree with the others. Regardless of what Kathy may be like, Bill is no better. Joan is doing the right thing. If Kathy ever wants to push for child support, Bill is going to have a rude awakening because not working is no longer an acceptable excuse in the courts. It wouldn't surprise me if Bill all of a sudden wanted to be a part of his childs life when the child is grown. He's got my ex written all over him. Bill is a loser!

Please don't think Bill's got an advocate here. Not by a long shot. He's been a big pain for his mother for several years now. It takes everything I've got not to knock him in the head with a stick when I see him.
If Kathy does push for child support and Bill is forced to work, that would be a good thing. If he chooses to run, that may be a good thing too. Joan may lose a son but she'll gain a sweet baby boy who already knows her and loves her. It will break her heart, tho.

Poor Joan :-(

Oh my. This is almost as complicated as my own grandparenthood. Without going into details I'll say that he is related to me only through circumstance of neighborhood and serendipity. We have no legal or blood ties. He's almost three and he has lived in my home for the last 11 months.

I can certainly sympathize with Joan and I send her all my best.

There isn't a morning that Iwake up not wondering if it's the day my heart will be broken. Not a day that I don't weigh the cost of knowing this child against the potential for disaster. Not a night that I lay my head down without marveling at the strangeness of a million large and small decisions that led to my situation.

Since I don't know if I'll have a happy or a sad ending, I can't offer much advice but this: her loyalty has to lie within her own heart and to no one but herself. She's the only one who can answer the nagging "can I live with myself if...., and if...., and if......" questions.

I do know that a heart that opens itself to love when the odds are so high is a strong heart that can withstand breaking. I wouldn't trade one single solitary second of the time I've spent with my grandson for an unbreakable heart.

I share some of Ehbeth's chariness of Joan. She forced the issue of tests - not that I am so against that, but find it a little interventionist - and seems in some way to me to be replacing her lame behaviored son, the one that is so unknowledgeable about responsibility, with a sparkling new baby.

On the other hand, I agree with all the comments about babies needing love, and surely Joan means well.

Boomerang, I have enjoyed your happiness lately, and know the circumstances are not my business, just want to say I hope you can somehow, over time, shore up the situation with some paperwork..

From your keyboard to God's ears, osso. (Hows that for a 21 century phrase!?) And thank you, I enjoy being happy lately.

There's plenty of guilt and blame to go around in this type of situation. I know all about shopping for paving stones with good intention dollars and I'm sure Jean does as well. Pointing fingers and casting stones will not help to raise this child. A lot of mistakes have been made but I don't think Jean's commitment to the child is one of them.

<applause>

Yes osso, Joan certainly did intervene, reaching out to Kathy and the baby, against other family members advice as well as Bill's and it does seem as if she's trying to replace the disappointment of Bill, her son, with this baby boy. Some people would go as far as to say that Joan is really being selfish. You know what they say. "The road to hell is lined with good intentions." But there's the little baby to be considered above all else and I should say that when the baby is with Joan at the house, Bill does take a large interest, bathing him, feeding him, and it looks as if someday he just might come around but as yet, he's never expressed an interest in his son on his own and when asked about it, and I did ask him about it just the other day, his first comment is that he's not legally responsible. As if that makes it alright to be an asshole.